Stanley70

He is buds with Cade, probably didn't like the way he was treated. I guess he will be going to Iowa also.

I hope they get a QB out of this draft, I really believe they will try. Hopefully Levis at 3 if he is worth it. While waiting until later and taking a QB has worked for teams in the past, there are far more examples of that strategy not working out. Of course at all hinges on finding the right QB and being able to get him without forking over too much draft capital. Last year I watched a bunch of youtube highlight reels on Willis and Howard and thought that they were worth taking a gamble on, and neither were taken in the top 75 picks. So I have no idea if Levis is actually worth taking that high. And i don't want Stroud.

Yea OSU was petrified of getting paved again with Michigan going on 13 play 7 minute TD drives with 10 runs. So they played single and zero high with corners that aren't that good and blitzed a ton and got burnt. They are probably panic recruiting a few 330 pound DT's right now. JJ was a factor running the ball and took some shots, throwing his body into the end zone, and standing in there and getting passes off under pressure. While Stroud didn't run at all and mostly panicked when under pressure. The QB not being involved in the run game is the biggest difference between Urban and Day.

Maybe the Tigers just want to be bad with different players this year.

The smart money will come in late, watch how the line moves later in the week as more info on injuries leaks out.

I was hoping Williams would come back for the Thanksgiving day game. Would have added an extra element of excitement. I think Williams will be a star, I just hope Goff has the arm to fully utilize him.

OSU has been out gained in 3 games this year. Michigan hasn't had been below +50 in every game. Penn State out gained OSU by 30 and Michigan was +260 against them. Injuries, the weather, and how accurate JJ is will determine the game. OSU will put up points, hope for bad weather.

Michigan has ran a few screens. I remember one against MSU where JJ overthrew Edwards on third and goal. They have thrown a few to Wilson and Bell also. Michigan has more sacks this year than last, but the lack of a consistent edge pass rush is worrisome. The ground game has just reached 1970s level dominance to where they haven't needed to pass. It looked good against the cupcakes early on, but they haven't hit many downfield shots since. They haven't tried many either.

You can start to see a decent defensive core forming with Okudah, Hutch, Joseph, Rodrigo, and McNeil. Hopefully Paschel and Jacobs develop and Walker recovers next year. Plus there are a few other pieces that you can hold out hope for in Barnes, Levi, and Melifonwu. If they stack another good draft like it appears the 2022 may be they should be able to fill most of the gaping holes on defense that still exist. Like an interior DL that can reach the QB, a slot corner, and a LB to replace Anzalone. Plus they will need a #1 CB. They have 5 top 75 picks so this will be the offseason where they can improve rapidly. If they restructure or cut Goff and get rid of a few contracts like Brockers, Chark and Okwara they should have enough money to add an impact defensive player through FA or trade. They will need to hit on whatever QB they bring in though.

True. And this wasn't really a rebuild, it was a build. They basically had to start from scratch in most areas, creating departments that didn't exist. A franchise should never have a prolonged period of losing like the Tigers are going through.

If Chris Illitch it to be blamed for anything it's that he left AA in charge for waaayyyyy to long. It baffles me that owners of billion dollar teams leave the success/failure of the club to the GM, and don't have consultants or something verifying that the club is going in the right direction. At least the Lions have Speilman now. This board could see that the system wasn't improving developing young players years ago. I'm sure AA was telling Chris about all the great prospects he had that were about to break through and with a few free agents they would be contenders. When in actuality the system was top heavy and relied up most all of the prospects panning out, which never happens. And most of those prospects were in the riskiest demographic, pitching. I believe Al tried to rebuild, he just never built a competent development system.

Hockenson has 2 games this year with over 50 yards. And he has averaged 4 receptions for 44 yards over his career. And he seemed to be a average to below average blocker. He will be missed but I am sure the Lions didn't want to extend him at about 12-15M a year and figured now was the best time to move on.

They have struggled the last few games because Swift and ASB have missed time. Plus Reynolds has been banged up. When healthy they are a top 10 offense. Which is a huge improvement over last year. The defense is not improving. Last years draft has only McNeil contributing, which is a problem. They have some decent players but so many gaping holes teams can pick them a part. This was always a two year rebuild. The offense is coming along fine, the defense needs work. On the front seven alone they have 3 rookies (Hutch, Paschel, Rodrigo), a second year guy (McNeil), a waiver wire castoff (Buggs), and replacement level LB from free agency. That is not going to cut it. And the secondary is worse. They have a lot of work to do but there are a few pieces in place on defense. If they don't improve next year it's time to question the leadership IMO.

I think how god awful of team they inherited matters, and no cap room to fix it. There are 5 guys I believe that played yesterday on defense left from the QuinTricia regime. And only Okudah is a decent player. AO is literally the worst corner and he is starting over Will Harris. Bryant and J Okwara are bottom of the roster guys. They have only had 2 off seasons to turn over the entire defense basically. They have made some mistakes, Brockers being the big one. You can also question their lack of efforts into doing anything to improve the secondary. They have made 4 day one or day to picks on the d-line and only Melanfonwu in the secondary and none at LB. . Having said that I am not sold on Glenn. The defense did get some pieces this year and they don't seem to be doing much better. His job is probably on the line if they don't do better on defense. The offense i believe will be above average, even with Goff, if they can ever get healthy. Which may not happen with a few guys. I think Campbell and Holmes deserve another offseason. They have made some mistakes but have had a ton of bad luck as well with injuries. It looks like they will have some cap room when they restructure Goff and cut a few guys like Brockers and Romeo. Plus they have a ton of draft capital.

I think a lot of the success with a draft can be attributed to the development team, especially the later picks. It would explain why the Dodgers can find four nice prospects in one draft and the Tigers are lucky to have one high pick pan out.

If i understand that correctly he only has 10M in guaranteed money after this year. But 20M plus in base salary for 2 years which is not guaranteed. So the odds of him having a 30M cap hit next year are low. Somehow they will restructure. Either to keep him around as a backup/stopgap or to trade him.

Perhaps I am a little more desensitized to the Lions losing, having been a fan for about 45 years. But I see some pieces developing and that is something at least. Still some gaping holes that when filled with guys that aren't waiver wire fodder should be a big improvement. Next year i will expect winning. Holmes will have had 3 drafts, all of the bad Quinn contracts will be off the books, and they should have some money to add a decent FA or two.

Their record is worse. Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are a combined 17- 3. Even Seattle has a winning record. My view of this team hasn't changed much just because what was expected to be another rebuilding season is off to a slow start, due mainly to injuries.

Are we really worse than preseason expectations given the injuries and tougher than anticipated schedule? They had 5 starters out against Dallas on offense, including the top 4 offensive weapons. Goff isn't the kind of QB that can succeed without weapons. It's who we thought he was and why we need to replace him. And the O-Line hasn't had the projected starting 5 on the field at the same time all year. You can blame Holmes for drafting an injured WR and then signing another in free agency though. On defense they were without Levi, Romeo, Harris, Walker, Comminsky, and just got back Jacobs and Paschel. The defense actually played their base game it looked like in spite of that. The combined records of the teams that they have lost to is 23-10, not the last place looking schedule it looked like. They need to get healthy and add depth, period. There were some very good signs on defense from Aiden, Okudah, Joseph, and Paschel on Sunday to build on. And when ARB, Swift and Jamo are on the field at the same time the offense will put up points i am sure, even with Goff.

With all of the pitching injuries there is a huge range of possibilities performance wise with the starting rotation. If Turnbull, Skubal, and Manning pitch well at some point and ERod is still a mid rotation guy they could in a good place by the end of the year. Plus they have Jobe and Flores in the minors and Mize coming back in 2024. Or not. So spending on multi year deals doesn't make sense until they get some clarity. And then as Edman mentioned they have to go through Candelario, and every position player player on the roster, with the new hitting and analytics staffs and determine if there are any keepers, and at what cost. Get creative with value trades and low cost signings and go from there. I don't think they will trade Skubal for example if he pitches well, but other relievers and possibly Turnbull. That is what I expect.

I don't get the Chris I. hate. A good owner sets a decent budget and stays out of the way. And makes changes in the front office when the team is failing. He has basically done that although he let AA hang around way too long. I understand not spending during periods losing, but he spent last year on Baez and ERod. Tampa Bay and Oakland would not have signed players like that in IMO. I expect Harris to to spend in areas the Tigers have neglected, like scouting and development. We will see how that goes. When they have a team that looks like they can win in the playoffs, should that day ever come, will he spend really big? He did in 2016 and he probably will again.

It's how you look at it. Take his day 3 picks. He started with a 4th, a 5th and a 7th. He hit on the 4th and missed on the other 2 and threw in a 2022 4th as well. Now would I trade 2 4th's, a 5th and 7th and St Brown? Of course. There is a missed opportunity though. And he started day 2 with a 2nd, and 2 3rds. He went 1 for 3 (so far, I agree there is time for Melanfonwu and Levi). And the draft overall was a good one, I am just saying he missed some picks that could have helped the defense.

Each pick is independent of the other. They missed on Levi, Melanfonwu, and Barnes. A 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounder, not sure what is wrong with saying that. I believe they traded up to get Barnes as well so he actually cost a 5th in 21 and a 4th in 22. Or something like that. All in all it was a good draft, a couple of stars but light on depth. They had extra picks that didn't work out.

The focus is missing on 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders from the same draft. Yes he hit on St. Brown which was a great pick. No GM goes 3 for three on those picks, but missing an all three stings. None of those three are decent backups at this point.

Barnes was a 4th and Melanfonwu was a 3rd. Just because they had extra picks doesn't ease the sting of missing on those picks. Yes Brockers was traded for a 7th, but he has a 7M cap hit this year which could have been spent better elsewhere obviously. Plus it will cost 4M to cut him next year.