1984Echoes

It allows International aid to GET to the Gazan refugees, which is currently a problem with the closed border. And as far as having a million Gazans in the Sinai, the problem for Egypt would be one of security I believe, as a few terrorists would slip out of Gaza along with the innocent. But outside of that, I don't think Egypt would be in it alone in supporting the refugees. I think the world would come together and do everything possible to assist. IMO.

PS: One further point: I am not being unsympathetic to Gazans here either. Egypt MUST open its borders to allow in temporary Gazan refugees. It, mostly, solves the humanitarian crisis, reduces (I won't say eliminates) civilian casualties, etc. So... my choices are: a full-blown pressure campaign on Egypt to open it's border with Gaza, on an unconditional surrender by Hamas, and NOT on support of Israel. I am simply making different choices than you are.

That's a really good point. I didn't look at it from that view...

Also: Guess what WE demanded of Germany and Japan? Unconditional surrender. Until that happens, I give full support to Israel, and they've done nothing so far to break me away from unconditional support. I want an unconditional surrender by Hamas.

The easy solution, and I've already stated as such: Unconditional surrender by Hamas. You say that that will never happen...? Guess what? Impasse.

One further example: If Bin Laden were hiding in Gaza instead of Afghanistan, and he was hidden somewhere in the tunnels underneath a mosque or a hospital and Hamas was shooting at us during our military search in Gaza, to find him... Would you expect to see anything different? I guess I could answer that myself in that I think we would DEMAND Egypt to open its borders to Gazan refugees until we found and arrested/ killed Osama, reducing civilian casualties. But... I don't think Israel is capable of putting the same amount of pressure on Egypt that we can. In fact, I KNOW that they can NOT. Hence, Egyptian borders are CLOSED to Gazan refugees.

0. But this is war. Expecting 0 or any targeted number thrown out just to be "smart" doesn't change the fact that... This is war. I'll turn the tables on you: What was the acceptable amount of innocent German civilian casualties we should have allowed when we were trying to defeat Hitler? Please give me a number. What was the acceptable amount of innocent Afghani civilian casualties we should have allowed when we were trying to get Osama Bin Laden? Please give me a number. What was the acceptable amount of innocent Japanese civilian casualties we should have allowed when we were trying to defeat Hirohito (actually the Japanese Military Industrialists but, Hirohito for brevity if not accuracy)? Please give me a number.

Gotcha... I thought your statement was leading somewhere but it was a simple statement instead, basically: "We've done it before, we can do it again."

You think that Hamas entering Israel and murdering babies and families is "conversation"? That's on you, not me. If you are unable to be honest that Hamas went into Israel and committed butchery, then you're not an honest person and we can't have an honest "conversation". Because that's EXACTLY what Hamas did. Like it or not.

(1) Gaza had its OWN government. Not Israeli occupation. This point is irrelevant in the context of the current Gaza War. AFTERWARDS, Two-state may be brought up again in the context of the greater solution to Palestinian nation-state to include the West Bank. But GAZA was already independent PRIOR to them invading Israel with murderous intent. (2) Then why aren't we hearing a clamoring for this? Why does Egypt get a PASS for not opening its borders and it's ALL on Israel? I hear nothing, from anyone, in the way of criticism for not alleviating Gazan suffering by allowing them a temporary home outside of Gaza whilst Israel goes after the Hamas terrorists that butchered its citizens. THAT would reduce civilian casualties, would it not? (3) They already did. Look at the results. I don't care who governs Gaza, and neither does Israel. HOWEVER, whomever governs Gaza... Israel is ADAMENT that terrorists not be allowed into Gaza and are demanding control oversight or similar over such. And they have EVERY RIGHT to make that demand! Period. (4) Hamas must be wiped out, at least effectively, IMO. I don't do terrorism or butchery. But to declare Israel as "no matter the count" is BS. They've given multiple and ample warnings to areas that contain terrorist tunnels, terrorists, etc. Your statement here is disinformation, pure and simple. (5) Disagree 100%. The US has already brokered humanitarian aid and increases of such aid, has already pressured targeted campaigns in which Israel has COMPLIED, and Two-State is for AFTER Gaza, not a PART of the Gaza campaign. Sorry.

I believe the US should continue to send aid to Israel without conditions in order to... Prevent further BABY BUTCHERING by Hamas. That works for me. Even if it may not work for you.

Oh wait... It's a problem... If Hamas justs... LAYS DOWN their ARMS? But... Why?

I really don't like that delivery, either. I'd prefer Imanaga.

Do you want to stop the death toll, RIGHT NOW? Easy: Hamas = unconditional surrender and gives up the remaining 134 hostages without conditions. The death toll stops TODAY under those circumstances. That works for everyone... right?

EXACTLY my thoughts.

That doesn't change anything I've said. Hamas is the impediment to a ceasefire, not Israel. Unless you are advocating Israel to a unilateral ceasefire, basically saying to Hamas: "Sure, we'll give you whatever you want."

It's not impossible. But the roadblock to agreeing to another one is Hamas. They would rather murder the hostages then relieve the war and fix Gaza. They want their murdering terrorists back, no matter the consequences.

And not just that. Hamas said, explicitly, give us the 6,000 Hamas prisoners you hold (murderers, terrorists, failed bombers, etc...) or we will MURDER the remaining 134 hostages. They weren't vague about this. Because... That's normal... Right? (open question to anyone, not pointed at ben...)

Lee signed with the Giants... and I know Tiger337 was really interested in signing him for the Tigers so... Lee lost Lee.

Well... That should light up the lamp...

Still wannabe in the market for Hader and Yamamoto, if there is any realistic possibility... If not, Imanaga and... Chafin??? as the fall backs?

Time to step up monster-athletic-kid but ferociously-raw... Let's see you at NOT raw but at MORE-than-flashing dominance. Holmes, let's see what you took a shot at in the 3rd round... I believe in you... Both.

Two points... 1) Yeah, got it. I'm insulting Benedict Arnold, true statement. 2) But also, Benedict Arnold DID **** over the US military, specifically by handing West Point over to the British. So, I think I am also correct...

Got it... joking... But... Not joking...

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