1984Echoes

We're so below market in allocated funds that spending money on Hader is a drop of spit in the bucket.

Ohtani? Or Bellinger?

Manning 2023 WHIP = 1.04 Skubal 2023 WHIP = 0.90 Boyd's career WHIP = 1.32 Norris's career WHIP = 1.40 Fulmer's career WHIP = 1.26 Manning and Skubal are, RIGHT NOW, better than any of those 3, and better than they ever WERE. Mize? TBD.

And aside from stats.. there are also personalities involved.

WAR is not the ONLY measure of comparable.

That wouldn't stop me. I would take that calculated risk, along with the shut-down talent and the 9th inning (only) lock.

No context whatsoever. An easy historical counting stat for you to refer to since Fulmer started out hot. How many WAR does Fulmer have in the 6 years since Fulmer put up that 9.4? 3? I'll tell you what, I will bet as much money as you want that Manning Mize & Skubal put up more WAR starting in 2024 through the end of their careers than your 3 have their ENTIRE careers. You have a 27 WAR head start and still counting... Wanna bet?

They're already better than Fulmer-Boyd-Norris. I know we don't have a current rotation of HOF'ers... but they're already "in-between" as you are hoping for. I brought up JV and Scherzer because everyone believes they are being SOOOO F'ing clever bringing up failures of the past. Case in point: This is who you ORIGINALLY listed... WTF do those 3 guys have to do with Skubal-Mize-Manning-Brieske-Faedo-Olson-Gipson-Long, etc...? Who are ALL pitching in MLB already, with varying degrees of success. From top-of-the-rotation starter to effective bullpen guys. WTF is going on with these OH SO CLEVER listings of previous failures? Not to bash on you because you didn't start this... but it's actually F'ing annoying. And it adds NOTHING to the discussion of how to set this team up for success in 2024 and beyond. /Soapbox.

PS: Mize, Manning and Skubal. Just to reiterate.

Invalid comparison. None of those guys were ever considered as anything more than 5th starters/ back-enders/ possible relievers. Faedo for several years has been looked at as targeted for the BP. And Brieske is already in the BP so moot point.

Why not Verlander, Scherzer and Porcello?

MLB should do it just like the minor leagues. If half a dozen top umpire "prospects" are in AAA, then graduate 1 of them and demote Hernandez to the PCL (no, NOT to Toledo!!!). Or put Angel on the "IL" for a few weeks to at least see if the AAA Umpire brought up to the Show is good enough...

Ohtani = pipe dream, he ain't leaving the Angels. Grandal = 35 and on his last legs and won't give you what you think you're going to get with him. Chapman = will be 31 next year and is DECLINING. Terrible suggestion. Too much money and too many years for a declining player? No thanks. Bellinger is the one suggestion here that would be interesting. He can play 1B, and is only 28. A LH'er with pop and plate discipline and positional flexibility (OF and 1B) that can take some time away from Tork if he can't make further improvements or stay in the OF if Tork DOES make significant improvements... I would approve this signing if this is the direction Harris wants to go. I also like Lee's suggestion of signing Jung Hoo Lee, I believe he is being posted this year as well as Yamamoto... Except I don't think he has much power and he doesn't play 1B. If I had a choice of one I think I choose Bellinger over Jung, but adding either (or BOTH) allows Harris to make additional moves as Carpenter/ Baddoo most likely become expendable at that point... Just my 2 cents.

dumb response. We know exactly who's going to be a FA this year. Oh look, you just named 3 bats!

Name those bats.

I'm with G2. The Dems know they have a winning hand with McCarthy out of the picture. They would vote with the fascist Republicans for McCarthy's removal because the hard right can NOT win another hard right speaker. The Problem Solvers Republicans and other moderate Republicans will put up a moderate Speaker option and 100% of Dems will side with them. Bipartisan legislation to follow and hard right Republicans humiliated. Am I dreaming or is that real? Hmmm.... Just (wishful) thinking out loud... But I think I'm right at least with what the Dems thinking about that.

Yep. developing... and evaluating.

Doesn't have anything to do whatsoever with our current situation. De nada.

I agree with this 100% as I don't see the team having excess pitching DURING 2024... But they may POSSIBLY have excess pitching AFTER 2024. That would be dependent on Mize coming back 100% and actually showing something, Manning taking another step or two (don't know if that's possible). Skubal showing 100%-season-health, the continuing development of Olson, Gipson-Long, Madden, and even Jobe (can he get to AAA in 2024? Or even a cup in September...? Or will he be on a longer timeline...?). Also Hurter and Flores on the outside as AAA depth... To say nothing of any additional injuries that slow 1 or a few of these guys down... There are too many questions right now to toss aside any top-level pitching. And I don't think there will be offers of much for Spencer Turnbull. I think we have a lot of REALLY good arms... but these guys need to settle into some consistency before Harris can start pulling triggers on any starting pitcher trades... IMO.

Not really. It applied when Greene & Tork & Carpenter and some of the pitchers came up, pretty much all at the same time. But that was two years ago... We have a 2nd wave coming up, with Keith, Malloy, Jung, Wenceel, Madden, Dingler, Jobe, Mattison etc... But that should be mostly in 2024 and partly in 2025. After that, I expect the team to be more or less settled and then it's no longer dependent on whether upcoming kids sink or swim (like Max Clark/ McGonigle/ Paul Wilson/ Carson Rucker/ Jaden Hamm/ etc...). And more dependent on the continuing excellence of the "veterans". At that point, I expect additions/ subtractions to the team to be 10% or so... Not 30-40%. And "draft and development" able to make contributions to continuing Tigers playoff competitiveness, versus the make-or-break spot we now find ourselves in.

point.

And Schoop. That alone should provide a big WAR jump.

I'm not counting on all the prospects hitting... I expect some to sink, and some to swim. The mission for 2024 is to figure out which are which... And go from there.

Calculated. Risk.

Yes, I get that's it's risky, especially for 2024 (maybe less so in future years once we figure out what we've got). But if I'm Harris, and smart... I test the kids first to figure out what I've got first... before making any moves. Whatever happens in 2024... Let It Be.