1984Echoes

PS: I was just being a smartass with the Yamamoto/Hader comment. But they ARE a component of that WAR improvement according to "my plan". As well as internal improvement from 75% of the guys already on the Tigers roster and under 27, so, I expect a lot of improvement from guys like: Riley Greene, Tork, Olson, Skubal, Manning, Parker Meadows, maybe Gipson-Long and Brieske. Even Faedo can be better if they use him as a 2-3 inning BP guy instead of as a starter... About 75% of those I'm expecting some improvement or even a lot. Or even just healthier years... although I am already excluding Baddoo, Carpenter & Nevin... so those guys might fall off or stasis next year and my improvement list can stay. And then fill-in-the-blanks with all the kids coming up. I mean, do you think we can NOT find a 2B'man that improves on Schoop's numbers, or the plethora of utilitymen we've had at 2B this year? Do you think we can NOT improve upon the grab-bag of 3B'man we've played there this year? THAT seems unreasonable to me. Even if it involves untested kids like Mallow, Keith, Wenceel, etc.

Yamamoto and Hader.

This is my timeline... So my first memories are pretty vague on any of the 60's crew... Just the end of their careers that didn't really register... My first REAL memory of the Tigers that really stuck... was THE BIRD!!! Mark Fidrych, and then the very next year (or two) a crapload of kids coming up all at once in Trammell & Whitaker & Morris & Petry & Thompson & Kemp & Parrish & Rozema and shortly thereafter Kirk Gibson. This might explain my fascination with all the kids in the minor leagues and getting them graduated to Detroit.

I'm pushing for 95+ wins next year. How is that waiting another 7 years? You are WAY off base.

I want the team to have 1-year patience to figure out what they DO have, for good or for bad. That, and the FA market sucks this year for position players...

No, I think he's a top-of-the-rotation guy. I consider the 1 and 2 starters to be at the top. And the 3-4 starters to be mid. And 5th/6th starters as back-enders. So maybe it's semantics here. But he could be a #1 for a lot of teams. I'm more comfortable having two top guys (Yamamoto/ Skubal just for an example), simply because of his health. But NOT his ability. He could even be the #1 guy in the Yamamoto/Skubal example. The only way he would be a mid-rotation guy is if he's on a team with so dominant a staff that he ends up in the #3 spot. This is reminiscent of our OWN prior staffs that Dombrowski put together when he had Verlander-Scherzer-Fister-Porcello, and then Verlander-Scherzer-Sanchez-Fister, then... Etc. Are you saying one of Verlander or Scherzer is only a mid-rotation starter because they are "ONLY" a #2 starter? Because I don't agree with that. I want a 1-2 punch (again), like we had before. And I consider guys good enough to be on a 1-2 punch to BOTH be top-o-the-rotation starters.... IMO.

Ditto. And we have too many kids waiting to ALSO fix our offensive offense next year so I do NOT understand the impatience. Let all these kids prove themselves, or not. Just WAIT one freaking year before addressing the offense (not aimed at you chas, but at all the rest of the impatience displayed on this board...). Let's see what we've GOT... before spending capital on offense, whether that's a FA contract or trading several guys to fix a spot...

He's at the level of a #2 starter, IMO. He may even be a #1, but his health hasn't allowed him to prove that. So a #2 starter on a playoff-level staff; maybe a #3 on a top, championship-level staff. IMO.

I would wait one year on position guys. Sift through all these kids to see who sticks. Starting at the trade deadline next year... We should have a better picture of: Can anyone stick at 3B (not just hitting-wise; but with fielding and throwing across the diamond included too)? My money is on Keith being able to stick there. But we'll see. Can anyone take and hold the 2B spot? We have LOTS of candidates, let's see who can stick. Keith, Jung, Maton, did they try Malloy there? And everyone is discounting Wenceel it seems. I believe he has a REAL chance to steal the starting spot there. Is Carpenter real, or not? There may be some doubt after his finish this year. If he's real, he's good enough to stick. And be the LH'ed side of a DH platoon, if not the RF starter. If not, it may be smarter to move him sooner (if he still has value) rather than later (when he proves he either DOES have value, or does NOT have any value...). I would NOT bet against Harris trading him this offseason. I like Ratko's idea of trading him for Peraza. I don't know if the Yanks would even consider that... but that would be a nice calculated risk/ trade for Harris if he could swing that, IMO. If Malloy pushes into a LF/DH spot and Carpenter is still here (and real) and can hold the RF/DH spot... then I'm comfortable with Parker in Center (I'm on board with fielding-first at Catcher, SS, and CF... so I don't mind lower batting averages there especially since Rogers has good enough power and a great glove, Parker also has some power but less than Rogers but great speed, CF instincts, and glove... and Baez... well... anyways); then Riley can play wherever is least damaging to his health, even if that means a lot of DH'ing in 2024... And Baddoo may even be able to squeeze in there somewhere, even if he spends half his time in Toledo... I don't see any other pressing concerns in 2024 with position players. Let the kids hash themselves out. Starting at the trade deadline next year, if the team needs to make a move, then it can do so, THEN, or in the 2024-25 offseason. By trade, or FA, or whatever. Again, I think the team needs to settle the pitching staff first and foremost. Who can remain healthy. Who is better in AAA or the BP. Who fronts the rotation (top 1-2 starters; everyone else fills in at the back-end). Who is suited best to close games? And who else fills in, in the BP. That says to me I start with Yamamoto and Hader. And don't worry about position guys, at all, until later next year. And if Manning is trade-worthy for 3 superior position player prospects in AA or single A this offseason (or at least 1 tp position guy and a couple pitchers added in...), then OK, fine... go for it. But that's minor leaguers, not MLB position guys. Just my 2 cents.

Skubal is not the guy to trade. It's Yamamoto and Josh Hader that we should sign. What that does is make everyone else potential trade bait. If you have Skubal and Yamamoto fronting the rotation, and Hader at the back-end of the BP as "Closer"... that makes everyone else in-between expendable. Not "every one"... but Harris then gets to choose who he wants to keep versus sell off. Who does he keep in the rotation after Yamamoto & Skubal? There's Mize, Manning, Gipson-Long, Olson, Wentz, Turnbull, Faedo. Who stays, who gets pushed into long relief, who gets traded? Consider also AA (Jobe) starters and AAA starters next year (Madden, Hurter, Flores), same questions. Turnbull is easily on a hit list at this point. Not that he would get anything back in return... I'm just saying, for obvious reasons, the Org most likely is willing to trade him first and foremost. But he's a starter so there has to be some kind of market for him...? Manning might be the most tradeable based on a team willing to take a chance on upside, and with still controllable years... Mize is an unknown, Faedo is easily Bullpen, Wentz either looks like toast, or a AAAA starter at best, at least at this point. So I start with Turnbull and maybe Manning I think. Unless some team would want an Olson or Gipson-Long even more than Manning? That would be interesting. But I sorta doubt that. The last piece of the puzzle is Harris's willingness to trade Manning. Would he be? I doubt that too. That means TURNBULL is your one and only trade option from the rotation. When Jobe makes the rotation in 2025, maybe you can look at moving an actual significant starter. Or Mize makes a superb comeback in 2024... Otherwise, I don't see Harris trading significant starters when he'll view them as a major need for our current team. Anyone dreaming up trading Skubal is pipe-dreaming. Unless of course, we get absolutely blown away by a trade offer, that is.... Similarly, Hader makes anyone else in the BP tradeable. But in particular it should push at least one of Lange or Foley out the door. Again, controllable and at least shows "poor-man's closer" ability so some team will want one of them. I like Holton-Faedo-maybe Brieske too as 2-3-inning guys in the bullpen. The only one in the minors I look at as any possibility is Mattison, probably also in 2025, like Jobe. Not before then. So until then, what we've got is what we've got. Either for the BP or for trade. So we end up with Turnbull and maybe 1 of Lange of Foley for trade. Make of that what you will.

This is the correct answer.

3 scores needed, including recovering two onside kicks. Cannot afford a loss on downs so take the 3 points and hunt the 1st onside. No other choice but to take the FG.

The Gutless Media (as described by... the media (one particular dude with a brilliant take)): https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trumps-thrill-ride-nearly-131938239.html

BOOM CHAKA-LAKA!!!

And Roberto Campos... although he's even further away... But Cruz and Workman seemed to make some minor improvements this year...

The current Mexican government is tending towards Fascist and would sooner allow the Chinese or Russian military into their country and ZERO chance of letting in any USA troops, anti-drug Special Forces or otherwise. Chance of joint Mexican-USA forces missions: NONE.

Excellent article... Thank you!

And I think G2 is being a mite ambitious with his math...

At the US Embassy in London? Kiev? Paris? Istanbul? Try again.

"Cut taxes on the rich and shift the burden onto the middle and lower classes and we'll ALL benefit from the trickle down economics..." Wink, wink.

Or the military. Or raising taxes on the "Cut taxes so we can line our pockets more" top 1% (including Senators and Representatives).

Which doesn't say ANYTHING if those are mostly Tourist Visas. Which can be processed at any Embassy around the world. Need more info before making any call on the 7.3 million. Otherwise, that number is useless...

Independents & Democrats are perfectly fine with strengthening immigration laws... But Republicans block them because that want Absolute Zero immigration (Trumpublicans), want to screw Dreamers and such, want to "build a wall" and machine gun nests at the southern border instead of doing anything ****ING REASONABLE... (comments not aimed at you pfife, but at the Republican BS'ers who are no longer F'ing REASONABLE on anything). Trumpublican Republicans can Go **** Themselves. And their hypocrisy.

How many of those are visitor passes versus immigration or work visas? 7.3MM is not a lot if those are mostly tourists...

WUT?!!! I don't understand what that means... Could someone explain that to me...?