1984Echoes

And I think this is the CURRENT Offseason 2023-24 question to ask as Ratko had pointed out in the 2023 regular season thread: PS: If Meadows is on the team... isn't he CF and Greene RF? Now Vierling gets sprinkled in (all 3 spots and some 3B) and only LF is the big open spot (along with DH) to sift through KC, Malloy & Baddoo as Ratko has pointed out. But also, one of the keys to 2024: how does Harris get himself a healthy starting rotation in 2024, and who are our 7 to 8 starters between Detroit & Toledo?

I think this will be a complicated thread. Just as it is complicated to actually create a Playoff-worthy team. So... any suggestions on trades, signings, who wins versus loses with all these kids coming up... how many seasons does it take to win anything (70's Tigers had Jason Thompson & Mark Fidrych come up in 1976, Steve Kemp, Alan Trammell, Lance Parrish, Lou Whitaker, Jack Morris & Dave Rozema in 1977, Kirk Gibson & Dan Petry in 1979... plus other bench players/ contributors... and it STILL took until 1984 to gel into a Championship team. And not everyone made it. Multiple trades, injured and out/ off the team, new manager, etc... So this may be a multi-year exercise in theorizing what needs to be added/ subtracted/ traded in order to build that level of a team. How do the Tigers go from sub-.500 to being a very strong competitive team that makes the playoffs on an annual basis? There are a lot of issues revolving around the construction of said-competitive team... let me go through a few of them: First off... we're a bit closer than current forum thinking... IMO: The thing is... we're ALREADY significantly towards .500, right now. We're not going to hit .500 this year (my goal), but on a team crap-loaded with problems, we're still within a stones' throw of that. On team with roster problems all over the lineup, the rotation, multiple field positions, etc... we're still not that far away. So a couple related points: 1) The overriding goal this season was to fix all our broken players and to allow Harris time to evaluate the organization, top-to-bottom. We're only half-way there with broken players. Rogers and Skubal look repaired. Eduardo too but we might lose him this offseason. Riley and Tork! look like they can still take steps forward, so only partially. Manning looks broken, Mize still is and so is Turnbull. So this is still a priority IMO, for 2024... to still fix or improve broken players. And health. Health in 2024 would go a long ways towards this team gelling into a better, more competitive team. Starting with the rotation. A must fix for 2024, especially if Eduardo leaves and Manning still cannot figure out how to get the most out of his talent at the MLB level. Quick oddball question: Should Manning get pushed to the BP? How do we even do that unless we have 6-7 capable other (healthy) bodies in Detroit & Toledo? Who are those guys? I still would be OK with keeping Eduardo, but not for more than that +1 year + $20 mill they were asking for. If it comes at les than that... I would still be very, very OK as him being the Vet starter in the rotation for the next 3-4 years. 2) Here is the more complicated issue: I think we are going to see exactly what I had surmised earlier in that we have a lot of high level players coming up through the minors (or already in Detroit), similar to the 1970's. But, again, here's the complication: What does that even mean? Playoffs? Nothing? Something? Who stays? Who goes? Who flops? Who gets traded? Who plays first? Or is it I Don't Know on 3rd? I'm going to leave this opening statement in thread as is at this point because... I think I've just opened up a can of worms:

Trump and his Maggot supporters threats of violence against the United States of America (one person shot dead already by the FBI... yesterday); theory: Trump isn't even really running for president in 2024, he just wants the platform to issue his threats of violence: https://www.yahoo.com/news/violence-leading-democracy-expert-says-094501120.html

My AAT: Jackson Jobe (haha! After I bashed Avila for picking him instead of Mayer...!) But he's starting to perk up the numbers now...

He prefers France to America anyways... let him leave. (One problem with France is that we have an extradition treaty with France): https://www.yahoo.com/news/hates-america-trump-slammed-admitting-071531117.html

BAN TRUMP!!! Movements to bar Trump from ever running for political office in the U.S. again, specifically President: https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-ban-trump-other-maga-093002838.html

Movements to bar Trump from ever running for political office in the U.S. again, specifically President: https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-ban-trump-other-maga-093002838.html

But I'm making a different point. Because I agree with you that they've "anointed" him as their "Jesus". But that doesn't make him "Jesus". Anointing Jim Jones as anyone's savior doesn't make him Jesus. Hitler taking power and turning into the "savior" of Germany (99% of the population (just a WAG) believed he had "saved" Germany, before he nose-dived, for specific reasons) still doesn't make him the "Jesus" of Germany. Putin is not the Jesus of Russia. Trumpism is not Christianity. I am not arguing with you that MAGA has "anointed" him, they have. I am arguing that just because someone is "anointed" in a cult, in any cult, does not "make" them Jesus. It's an inappropriate comparable based not on his anointment, but on the differences between the Cult of Trumpism, versus Christianity. They are not equal and therefore he can NOT be Jesus. Jonesism, Putinism, Hitlerism... none of these guys are modern day Jesus's... Although they certainly played to popular sentiment searching for a "savior". But, not the same thing. That's why I say when Trump dies, Trumpism will wither. It's a Cult of his personality, like Jones/ Putin/ Stalin/ Mussolini, etc... When the Cult Leader of a violent movement dies, the movement dies, even if it's not entirely 100%. It's not attractive to normal people. How can it grow? Christianity grew... because of its message, not its original leader. Therein lies the difference that I am trying to point out. Trump cannot be "Jesus"... even if he has been "anointed" by his sycophantic cult adulationists, because Trumpism is not a religious message, but, rather, a fascist message of violence and hatred. Like Mussolini (not Jesus), like Hitler (not Jesus), like Stalin (not Jesus), like Putin (not Jesus), etc.

DO IT!!!

Still doesn't make him Jesus. Not even Orange Jesus as that's just a (you know this already) derogatory moniker. It makes him much closer to... ummm.... What's his name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

Correctamundo.

100% correct. And they (and we all) know it.

Expected. And I love it.

No, I took it exactly as metaphor. But I still take difference with using Jesus as metaphor for Trump. And yes... I DO understand that the red hats look at Trump as some kind of savior. But no different than using Gandhi as metaphor... using either Jesus or Gandhi as metaphor doesn't work... They spread messages of living with other people who are different. Not using violence to protest injustice. Etc. etc. Trump is using Mussolini as his guideline: Violence is acceptable to install a fascist dictatorship. That benefits SOLELY himself. The exact OPPOSITE of Jesus in fact. And I do NOT agree that Trumpism will continue without Orange Jesus. It will die, however slowly that death will be. When Hitler died, did Nazism continue? (Or more appropriately, did Nazism continue at the level of German Nazism? Because yes... I do understand neo-Nazism is still alive and well... followed only by a few grotesque adherents...). Did the death camps continue? Your likening of Trumpism to Christianity is grotesque. And I'm not a Christian. Trumpism is not a religion. It is not enlightening. It is disgusting and hateful. Grotesque. Indigestible. And you propose that it will sustain, in the US? Or grow worldwide, is that what you are proposing? No. I don't believe so. I'm not saying it will die out to zero... Bigotry never dies. But it will diminish. And demographics are already swamping out the white trash bigots in this country, which is why they are lashing out in one last gasp by turning to Trump's fascism. But it is... a weak and abhorrent and Neanderthal gasp that chases people away; it does NOT attract more people to its cause. But LESS. You are wrong.

Demographics will out. Eventually.

This is what I was trying to say. However.. he ain't Jesus. He's closer to Ben's depiction of him as the Fuhrer; however I wouldn't go that far either. I would say the closest description would be Mussolini. Someone eminently stupid. Full of so much hot air he could fly to China if he were a balloon. And when he got beaten to death... even if Italian fascism didn't die off completely afterwards... without the head of the snake it evaporated into inconsequential. I think it will take longer for American Fascists to follow that path into nothingness... But once the head of the snake is chopped off... it will follow exactly the path of inconsequential into nothingness. I firmly believe that.

I don't want to live there. I wasn't clear with my "retiring there" comment... But what I actually want to do is snowbird there Feb-March... maybe a another month here and there... But yeah... I hate Florida in general so I don't want a permanent domicile (hmmm... maybe for tax purposes...) in Lakeland Florida.

The problem with that is that I want to retire to Lakeland, Florida... How about shipping all of them to Alaska? And they can take DeSantis with them. Trump can build a new Mar-a-Lago in YORK, Alaska... right across from Russia so he and Palin and all the other Putin-Fascist-Loving sycophants of his can "keep an eye" on Russia. Or take a quick boat ride over there so they can experience Putinistic Fascism first-hand since they are so in love with it... Master builder that he is...

No. If Trump went into exile, either forcefully or voluntarily... The cult would die. Not Trumpism, or the White Trash Bigots that form that core of support... But without their leader... the cult part of it withers and dies. IMO.

Can we just use an abandoned mine shaft? No money involved... Just toss him down the shaft... And the only thing Secret Service would need to worry about is stopping me from going to the edge of that mine shaft and peeing over the edge...

I better not speak to what I really want to see... Although I will say it rhymes with "eclectic hair".

Actually... Ukraine could be doing the world a favor by blowing up the Kremlin. Can we give them a missile for that please?

Now we need Georgia to PILE ON... 😁 😂

I'll say this again... I would be VERY OK with buying out his option. What's he have left? 3 years? So $30 mill gives him a $10 mill/ year bump as it seems he is VERY underpaid at the level his current contract runs given the level of excellence he is currently pitching at... But I am really NOT as enthused for an extension. In fact, very much against that...

But also... How serious are the Tigers about extending/ buying out his option? They were pretty motivated to trade him this deadline so... Still... A huge grain of salt here... IMO.