1984Echoes

I'm terrified of this thread and ain't gonna say ****. Whatever happens this season, for better or for worse... happens.

Chiarot is losing NHL mobility by the minute. He may have NHL toughness still, but no longer the defense. I think that creates both difficulties and opportunities: A Petry-Gostisbehere pairing probably needs to be 90% offense and 10% defense... so protected... but also pretty dangerous on offense/ PP so I think this pairing holds and is utilized as I said in a protected/ offensive game plan. Maatta-Holl looks good as a 2-way, but then what to do with Chiarot? I think he has to be utilized in measured doses. So it should be more like Maatta/Chiarot - Holl IMO. Which means when Simon is ready... and I agree it doesn't look like he'll be ready at the start of the season + I think they want him to learn a couple things at a much higher level (I forget specifics) before he gets more NHL time. The opportunity is that: Maatta/Chiarot left side on the second pairing. I would have no qualms benching either one of these guys if Simon is indeed ready... Or... both. Or... if one of them gets injured for a couple weeks and Simon is (A) not quite ready then the other guy starts and McIsaac gets called up as 7th or (B) IS ready then Simon gets called up and takes over the left-side 2nd pairing for as long as he is up...

Can we get that on camera please? I would especially like to see him hog-tied and then a binkie shoved in his mouth and taped down to keep him quiet.

I was just going to say... but this works too... How about for the next 10 years? But 2035 beats that by two so I'm going to go with Lord Stanley here...

I didn't state there would be street demonstrations... check what you quoted again... I said they would "scream." That is all. But if you'd like me to elaborate, or simplify: I'm stating they'll be on his side no matter what. They could care less if he is in court, on TV, guilty, or not. On TV means nothing to them except a chance to "scream." Hopefully it won't come to further violence by the MAGA fascists. But my point is: Nothing will break the Cult of MAGA except humiliation/weakness (Trump breaking down and weeping "could" cause enough revulsion to break the cult? But that's just a guess...). IMO.

Everyone seems to have forgotten... and you are treating this as a rational person... when... MAGA would scream for executions or a Civil War with every perceived slight of Trump in court and on TV... no matter how MF'ing GUILTY he is. And it would confirm his GOD STATUS with every utterance he made in court. Brilliant or moronic. The only way to cut him off at the knees, in court and on TV, is for him to have a public breakdown and start weeping uncontrollably. That just may break his immortal coil.

Petry will be a good transition guy (better than Lindstrom) to get from Seider + ___???___ to Seider + Hopefully Tuomisto & Pellika... and Gibson? Anton Johansson? (Sorry... I'm talking futures here... Holl & Petry are the transition guys to get us to our future hopeful right-side D's...)

I'm just waiting for the Electric Chair moment. Or the Guillotine moment. That hasn't been used in quite awhile... Could I get a guillotine please? For Trump and all of his RICO crew?

Nope... didn't mention the HR. But, Rather: The .280 BA and the .365 OBP this year (in AA & AAA combined). He's mostly plus BA and OBP at every level. Oh, and he also plays 2B (naturally, not as a refugee from 3B or because the Org can't find a position for him...). I know he started as a SS but he's been better at 2B the past several years. And he has some speed and a little bit of power to boot (so, yes the HR... but only 14 last year in 356 AB's (plus 10 triples and 18 SB's...) and only 8 this year I think in 377 AB's... plus 4 trip's and 22 SB's). I think you're just yanking my chain there but... 😉 you know...

PS: I think Wenceel should be given a legitimate shot at 2B next year... He actually fits the Harris "type": high hit tool, controls the strike zone (reasonably well...)

Just a guess but... I'd put more money on the 5th string QB (Adrian Martinez - PS) making it through this season than on the 4th string QB (Sudfeld).

On RH hitters... The big FA get this offseason is Jung Hoo Lee, but he's also a LH'ed OF'er... There are no magic pill FA's this year outside of Lee, that the Tigers have a chance at, IMO. Just a lot of warmed over leftovers. The best RH'ed FA's this year are: Jeimer Candelario (HAH!)?, Teoscar Hernandez?, Brian Anderson? and Matt Chapman? Not much there at all. I'd go after Teoscar maybe. None of them "command the strike zone" though so I'm not certain what Harris will go after... maybe a trade more than a FA? Internally... Bigbie is RH'ed, but I don't think we can count on him for anything. He may be able to make the Tigers and be Carpenter 2.0, but I think that is a "prove it" type of player/ play, not a "we can count on it" type. Wenceel is a switch-hitter and was high-OBP from the right side... until this year when his splits flipped and he's struggled as a rightie (but a .411 OBP from the left side) but he's a fringy player at best as a utility type (unless he can grab a 2B job?). Campos is RH'ed but he's a long way away at this point and is struggling so far... Dingler is also RH'ed... but looks like Rogers 2.0 - great defender, low BA, has some power... but can't get to that power consistently because of the low BA. So, just like Rogers, I guy you want at the bottom 3 in the lineup to extend the lineup, but not someone you want in the top 5 as a key run-producer. From the right side, we have only Tork, who is still struggling with learning MLB pitching (I think he can get to another level but it's torture watching him trying to get there...) who I would want in the top 5, and maybe Vierling... but Vierling is an iffy guy in the top 5 as well. And Tork at his current level is just not good enough in the top 5 for a serious competitive team so, he has to get better. And the Tigers need better, from him and other solutions, on the right side. Best avenue appears to be, again, the trade route, IMO.

I keep thinking Riley has the arm for RF but I think you're right... it should be Greene in LF and Meadows in CF, everyone else in RF or DH or subbing out a few games at LF & CF. Oh, and how much time does Vierling get at 3B next year? I think that depends on how Keith fares. And I think Keith spends most of his time at 3B, not 2B. Not 100% at the hot corner, but I think it ends up 95% of his time is at 3B...

In addition... I think there will be a few guys in Toledo next year who may warrant a cup of coffee, or more, in 2024: Madden & Mattison to start with. Mattison in the BP... and maybe Flores joins them, but is it in the BP? I think they keep Wilmer in the rotation until circumstances dictate otherwise... Do Hurter and Gipson-Long break with Toledo, or stay in AA in 2024? Faedo & Wentz play somewhere... although I don't know where... in 2024. If nothing else, maybe these guys will help with depth.

And I think this is the CURRENT Offseason 2023-24 question to ask as Ratko had pointed out in the 2023 regular season thread: PS: If Meadows is on the team... isn't he CF and Greene RF? Now Vierling gets sprinkled in (all 3 spots and some 3B) and only LF is the big open spot (along with DH) to sift through KC, Malloy & Baddoo as Ratko has pointed out. But also, one of the keys to 2024: how does Harris get himself a healthy starting rotation in 2024, and who are our 7 to 8 starters between Detroit & Toledo?

I think this will be a complicated thread. Just as it is complicated to actually create a Playoff-worthy team. So... any suggestions on trades, signings, who wins versus loses with all these kids coming up... how many seasons does it take to win anything (70's Tigers had Jason Thompson & Mark Fidrych come up in 1976, Steve Kemp, Alan Trammell, Lance Parrish, Lou Whitaker, Jack Morris & Dave Rozema in 1977, Kirk Gibson & Dan Petry in 1979... plus other bench players/ contributors... and it STILL took until 1984 to gel into a Championship team. And not everyone made it. Multiple trades, injured and out/ off the team, new manager, etc... So this may be a multi-year exercise in theorizing what needs to be added/ subtracted/ traded in order to build that level of a team. How do the Tigers go from sub-.500 to being a very strong competitive team that makes the playoffs on an annual basis? There are a lot of issues revolving around the construction of said-competitive team... let me go through a few of them: First off... we're a bit closer than current forum thinking... IMO: The thing is... we're ALREADY significantly towards .500, right now. We're not going to hit .500 this year (my goal), but on a team crap-loaded with problems, we're still within a stones' throw of that. On team with roster problems all over the lineup, the rotation, multiple field positions, etc... we're still not that far away. So a couple related points: 1) The overriding goal this season was to fix all our broken players and to allow Harris time to evaluate the organization, top-to-bottom. We're only half-way there with broken players. Rogers and Skubal look repaired. Eduardo too but we might lose him this offseason. Riley and Tork! look like they can still take steps forward, so only partially. Manning looks broken, Mize still is and so is Turnbull. So this is still a priority IMO, for 2024... to still fix or improve broken players. And health. Health in 2024 would go a long ways towards this team gelling into a better, more competitive team. Starting with the rotation. A must fix for 2024, especially if Eduardo leaves and Manning still cannot figure out how to get the most out of his talent at the MLB level. Quick oddball question: Should Manning get pushed to the BP? How do we even do that unless we have 6-7 capable other (healthy) bodies in Detroit & Toledo? Who are those guys? I still would be OK with keeping Eduardo, but not for more than that +1 year + $20 mill they were asking for. If it comes at les than that... I would still be very, very OK as him being the Vet starter in the rotation for the next 3-4 years. 2) Here is the more complicated issue: I think we are going to see exactly what I had surmised earlier in that we have a lot of high level players coming up through the minors (or already in Detroit), similar to the 1970's. But, again, here's the complication: What does that even mean? Playoffs? Nothing? Something? Who stays? Who goes? Who flops? Who gets traded? Who plays first? Or is it I Don't Know on 3rd? I'm going to leave this opening statement in thread as is at this point because... I think I've just opened up a can of worms:

Trump and his Maggot supporters threats of violence against the United States of America (one person shot dead already by the FBI... yesterday); theory: Trump isn't even really running for president in 2024, he just wants the platform to issue his threats of violence: https://www.yahoo.com/news/violence-leading-democracy-expert-says-094501120.html

My AAT: Jackson Jobe (haha! After I bashed Avila for picking him instead of Mayer...!) But he's starting to perk up the numbers now...

He prefers France to America anyways... let him leave. (One problem with France is that we have an extradition treaty with France): https://www.yahoo.com/news/hates-america-trump-slammed-admitting-071531117.html

BAN TRUMP!!! Movements to bar Trump from ever running for political office in the U.S. again, specifically President: https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-ban-trump-other-maga-093002838.html

Movements to bar Trump from ever running for political office in the U.S. again, specifically President: https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-ban-trump-other-maga-093002838.html

But I'm making a different point. Because I agree with you that they've "anointed" him as their "Jesus". But that doesn't make him "Jesus". Anointing Jim Jones as anyone's savior doesn't make him Jesus. Hitler taking power and turning into the "savior" of Germany (99% of the population (just a WAG) believed he had "saved" Germany, before he nose-dived, for specific reasons) still doesn't make him the "Jesus" of Germany. Putin is not the Jesus of Russia. Trumpism is not Christianity. I am not arguing with you that MAGA has "anointed" him, they have. I am arguing that just because someone is "anointed" in a cult, in any cult, does not "make" them Jesus. It's an inappropriate comparable based not on his anointment, but on the differences between the Cult of Trumpism, versus Christianity. They are not equal and therefore he can NOT be Jesus. Jonesism, Putinism, Hitlerism... none of these guys are modern day Jesus's... Although they certainly played to popular sentiment searching for a "savior". But, not the same thing. That's why I say when Trump dies, Trumpism will wither. It's a Cult of his personality, like Jones/ Putin/ Stalin/ Mussolini, etc... When the Cult Leader of a violent movement dies, the movement dies, even if it's not entirely 100%. It's not attractive to normal people. How can it grow? Christianity grew... because of its message, not its original leader. Therein lies the difference that I am trying to point out. Trump cannot be "Jesus"... even if he has been "anointed" by his sycophantic cult adulationists, because Trumpism is not a religious message, but, rather, a fascist message of violence and hatred. Like Mussolini (not Jesus), like Hitler (not Jesus), like Stalin (not Jesus), like Putin (not Jesus), etc.

DO IT!!!

Still doesn't make him Jesus. Not even Orange Jesus as that's just a (you know this already) derogatory moniker. It makes him much closer to... ummm.... What's his name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

Correctamundo.