1984Echoes

PS: I took a look at Arizona's roster and they are so bereft of talent, especially young talent... Which doesn't mean absolute zero... just a serious deficiency... So yes, I would trade Chychrun for a stash of future assets if I could get enough players/ prospects/ draft picks that I believed in, that could play in the NHL in the near future or would be drafted by my team... IE: I would be OK with a non-playoff-protected 2023 1st rounder that turns into a 2024 2nd and 2025 3rd as long as I also got a 2024 unprotected 1st and a 2023 2nd. Do I get to choose Carter Mazur over Cross Hanas as 1 of my prospects? I choose Mazur. And my choice of Wallinder/ Buium/ Johansson? Do I get a choice of 1 of Veleno/ Zadina/ Maatta/ Walman (I choose Zadina... I think)? Will you throw in Vrana since you want him gone anyways? I'm not in complete Dombrowski mode... But if I can trade the right guy for multiple future assets in order to increase the overall talent level of the Org then yes (If I were Zona and looking to improve the team...).

It depends... On a lot of things: What is the actual package/ what is the time to contention/ which draft picks/ etc. So maybe. It all depends on multiple factors...

Would you trade Maatta plus secondary prospects & draft pick(s) for Chychrun?

Well those are money decisions. Something that is in Stevie Y's sights as he sets to build the team... keeping an eye on the cap as well as the talent/ incoming talent... He could have easily traded for Horvat, signed him for $8.5 mill AAV, and said to Larkin "Here's the $9 mill AAV that you wanted immediately after. But those are other considerations as I've noted above, and SY's purview... which does NOT negate the potential that we could still make a similar trade as we do have enough ammo. I think buddha alluded to the fact that NY would not have made that trade without some idea that they'd be able to sign him long-term shortly thereafter. SY certainly could have decided to go that route if he wanted to... both with trading prospects/ draft picks for Horvat and his contract/ signing risk... he is just choosing a different route.

Nope. Overruled.

Trade him. . . . And I mean Chiarot lest someone try to twist my cryptic first statement...

I also would prioritize it like that... A 1st? Trade him. Later than that... or a 1-year contract instead... sure, I could do that...

Go back and take a look at that Horvat trade and tell me the Wings couldn't have beaten what was traded. There are obviously lots of other considerations... I just take exception to your statement on us having no one to get what the Wings need. We have prospects, draft picks, etc...

That's my main point. To build this team for future pennant races. But that doesn't mean a straight sell-off either. SY could both sell AND BUY, given the right opportunity. That was my other point. He is going to start to have to make decisions on how to build this team going forward... meaning, who sticks, and who should be moved out. I know I have proposed some crazy trades with middling or secondary prospects (not top prospects) for other players... But both guys on the Red Wings who are not necessary or extraneous for future playoff teams, as well as secondary prospects... should be eligible for trading off fort any upgrade SY can squeeze. He could look like he is buying for the playoffs at the deadline, even as he trades off Bertuzzi or other guys that may not be long for this team. Even if he trades off someone like Maatta, whom I would rather NOT be traded off... I guess the short story is...: Could be a funky looking trade deadline for the Wings...

They're 12th right now with only two teams that they have games on and a small enough point range that they could catch up on so... As far as I'm concerned... Stevie Y could both trade away guys AND trade FOR guys depending on what works for the team... I'm not going to worry about playoffs this year although it'd be nice to make a run. But... like you said, 5-game Western road trip and then we're right on top of the trade deadline. Once we get past the trade deadline a couple weeks and see what our team looks like and if they're able to go on any run will I concern myself with playoffs. Otherwise I don't need the stress. Also, do we get Edvinsson or Soderblom after the trade deadline? What happens to Ned/ Vrana/ Hellberg/ Bertuzzi? I think for the rest of this year at least... I am more interested in team-building than the playoffs. Next year, I want... IN.

I may be wrong.. but I don't think these guys are immobile. I believe Stew is all over the court and is very... mobile. A poor man's Ben Wallace if you will. With slightly better offensive ability. Bagley and Duren and Wiseman are all very athletic and mobile. I don't think Bagley will ever get it. He is what he is so he's not a good defender. Duren and Wiseman are young, athletic, and fast... and could turn into Rasheed Wallace's. Will they? Wiseman's shortcoming's are basketball IQ (which could simply be a product of a lack of playing time from COVID, injury, 3 college games, etc.), a steep learning curve, not much defense, and a need for lots of playing time to get through all the aforementioned issues. Duren seems like he has less obstacles to become a good defender. Will this all work? Especially with Wiseman and Duren needing to develop (IMO Wiseman will be the Center coming off the bench for the rest of this season and... only if he improves defense, IQ, and 3-point range will he overtake starting Center position. If Duren is pushed over to PF by Wiseman (and becomes - Shawn Kemp (of course!!!)), I'm fine with that. Bagley can be the Center off the bench and Stew can be the PF/ energy guy off the bench... No idea. But Weaver fired by next season if they aren't a play-in...? Ridiculous. Not going to happen.

All they need to do is keep the picks that they sent for Payton, and Kevin Knox. That seems fair...

Or pushed to the bench.

I'm going to concur with NYLion. These guys are just... young. Including Wiseman. I don't feel anything crucial here... except patience.

How much criticism does Weaver get for not correctly identifying Haliburton versus Killian? But also... how many in here were higher on Haliburton versus Killian? I don't remember... I think I was higher on Hali but I wasn't vocal about it at all. It was probably marginal at best... and at that point for me it was "trust in Weaver" anyways.

That's what I want for dinner! Shrimp & Eggplant in Garlic sauce, an order of fried pork dumplings and... hmmm... an egg roll or a shrimp roll...? Hmmm....

I see you hedged on that too because you used both "has" more potential than Duren as well as "had?" more potential than Duren.

I hedged on that because of the past few years... And on the defensive end, I'm not so certain about that. On O, yes... but big picture... he's got a lot to prove... and a long ways to improve. Room for growth... but the growth curve is steep for him.

Which... MIGHT be cured with playing time. Since it was close to zero with GS... how was he supposed to improve? The Pistons can have him come off the bench and live with all his mistakes while they try to coach him up. No guarantee it works but... Detroit's in a great spot to give him the chance/ playing time to try and get better.

Just a guess...

Wiseman's upside is higher than Bagley's or Stew's, that's why. He's more athletic, and a much higher offensive threat. Prediction: Wiseman becomes the best 3-point shooter of these 4 bigs, and averages 35% (not this year and maybe not next year... but starting from age 23 through 33-ish...). His floor time will be dependent on his defense though. Which apparently sucks bigly. But I think he becomes a better defender than Bagley (not hard), and gets up to a tad below Duren (what Duren will become). Not elite... but more like a Turner in that he's a shot-blocker but not a great one-on-one defender.

Brilliant.

Yeah, whatever.

No... I think the opposite will be decided by the market... That he ends up with the Lions.

So do we want one of the Thompson brothers who are uber athletic (if we fall in the 3 to 5 range), look like hound dogs on defense... but aren't great jump-shooters... Or Miller, who can shoot the lights out (it looks like from anywhere although I haven't checked shot charts) but is only average athletic and is currently questionable on defense (not certain how much/ if that could improve)...?