1984Echoes

Lee HBP and he was taken out of the game with injury...

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If you're seeing the same thing that I'm seeing... Not really so shocking, right? I haven't seen him much... But man, I just don't see someone dedicated to this game or dedicated to being the best player he could be... Just my opinion, but... It appears I am not the only one seeing this...?

The only thing I would say pertaining to this is that he would need to be moved in the offseason... Not at the trade deadline if that's what you mean by "now". Then, every team in the league will bid on him and the prices are usually higher in the offseason than at the deadline. Or at least I believe that's the prevailing theory...

I think this is the best path. AAA in 2024 for the rest of the season. He needs to work on both his offensive and defensive game. Just by appearances, from what I've seen of him... it just LOOKS to me like he is not taking the game seriously. Fat & happy in Detroit and a 1-1 who will get paid/ get his. If he can't take this game seriously and improve... Then move him out. I think 2024 in Toledo and one more offseason to decide how much and at what level he would actually like to play in MLB is the right recipe. If he is surpassed at 1B in Spring Training, by anyone, then send him back to Toledo and move him at the first opportunity. If he DOES decide to take the game seriously and makes the necessary improvements... then fine, let him have that chance. Can he get to Tony Clark level? Maybe that's good enough. I would prefer a Konerko level... but TC would be good enough?

Exactly.

I would prefer it be in GR because then that means Cossa is the 3rd goalie and called up whenever necessary. A good way to get his feet wet with some experience in NHL without putting a huge load on his shoulders if he's not quite ready yet. Even if he were the 2nd goalie, backup, in Detroit, that would mean 20+ games (or so) almost guaranteed. As 3rd goalie they can manage in much smaller doses. And they've had backups in GR recently that they could also call up as a 3rd goalie, giving options to further manage Cossa' potential NHL time.

The flipside on Keith that I would ask: He's playing 2nd because of last year's surgery on his shoulder IIRC. Does his shoulder get back to full strength as more time passes from the surgery? Can he make the throws from 3B by now? Is there a chance that he goes back to 3B? I believe if his arm/shoulder warrants... he's more valuable at 3B than at 1B. Just my 2 cents.

I didn't. Strawman.

You are providing the bad faith argument. It's even in what you quoted. "I would prefer" does NOT equal "claims he can just be rubber stamp signed to a 2-3 year extension". You created a strawman. In bad faith. And just because I didn't STATE an if/then statement, does not mean that it doesn't exist. The very statement "I would prefer", and ALSO "Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now" does the exact same thing. IF the team can sign Flaherty to an extension THEN the "for now" and "I would prefer" have more staying power. I put no guarantees in there. NONE whatsoever. Until then, your "rubber stamp" is both an absolute strawman and in BAD FAITH.

Where did I say that? Please provide quotes:

The only pitchers making more than $30M/yr are Ohtani, Scherzer, JV, Cole & deGrom. That I know of. So what you're telling me is that Flaherty is worth more than every other pitcher in MLB except those 5? With his injury history? And his stated desire of being with Detroit's pitching coaches? Show me where he's made demands for 5 years $150 mill. Otherwise, and this is only my belief: he'll be more moderate than that, and will have a desire to stay in Detroit. The bigger question is: does Harris want him here? Or does he see him as a trade opportunity that he can't pass up? I don't think there are unreasonable contract demands that will be a stumbling block. I think it's simply a matter of what is inside Harris's head.

Call up to where? West Michigan? I would assume that but it doesn't really say... And I'd rather not assume. I thought McGonigle might be ready for the move to high-A but I wasn't certain Clark was quite ready for that jump... But... good for him.

PS: I don't like Petry either. He's past his useful shelf life. Just another bad pairing option for Simon. I wish we could do better.

I see Chiarot as worse. That leaves Holl? Or you can put another lefty out there but who is good enough on this team to be a 2nd pair? Lefty or righty? That's why I've wanted a better pairing for Edvinsson since the last trade deadline or even before that. I anticipated him coming up and pairing with... hot garbage? I'll state it flat out: I would rather Tuomisto come up and be 2nd pair with Simon. Big, fast, hits, and is a defensive defenseman. But he's not a vet and will make as many rookie mistakes as Simon. Petry, Holl, Maatta, Tuomisto, Johansson, or find another D'man to pair up with him. I do NOT think you can just throw him out on the 1st pair with Seider. So it's sort of a small box, with only bad, or worse, options. Which option would you choose?

But I think the Edvinsson-Petry pairing makes sense... unless Holl improves enough to surpass Petry. I think Simon-LHD-veteran-RHD makes the most sense here. For Edvinsson's sake. That leaves the 3rd pairing... In which I agree 100%. That can be mix and match any which way coach wants to do this. Also, PP and PK I don't care about handedness... Just make it work.

PS: To this point: I would be sellers at this trade deadline. There mostly is never good guys (with team control) moved at the deadline, so the buying part has to wait until the offseason, IMO. Which is why I want all the kids called up ASAP. I want to see SOME kind of MLB track record with each and every one of these kids in order to have SOME idea of their MLB value. I don't agree that their value all evaporates once exposed to MLB... from the Tigers perspective. It's better for OUR team to understand each of these guys' MLB strengths and weaknesses because Harris has to be able to assess their worth to our own team first. IMO. I don't want to trade Paredes away because we have absolutely no clue what his MLB value is. The team better assess his performance in MLB, and correctly, IMO. I'm mentioning Paredes, already traded, but that goes for every minor league kid I mentioned above.

I would rather: Extend Flaherty 2 or 3 years. He and Skubal and Olson are the basis for a competent rotation for the next 2+ years. We have no one else ready to step in this year or next to take one of their places. I don't mind sifting through guys (Mize/ Manning/ Madden/ Montero... hmmm... I'm feeling a sudden urge for M&M's for some reason...) in the 4th and 5th spot. But 1-2-3, I want talented, reliable pitchers. That's Skubal-Flaherty-Olson, for now. Until someone pushes into the top 3 (Jobe is more than a year away, on a WAG?), then those 3 guys anchor the rotation. If someone DOES push into the top 3... awesome. I'm of a mind that, if we're going to look like ****, because of all these kids... well, then let's just look like **** with all these kids. As soon as is humanly possible, call up Jung, Meadows, Dingler, Tork (if he can get back on track)... hell, even Vilade. He's only 25 and can play 1st. Get it over with. Whatever struggles these guys are going to have trying to acclimate to MLB... have at it. Let them all flop around and struggle and try to figure out MLB pitching. They either swim... or sink. Maybe even call up Lee in September if he warrants. I think he can actually FIELD 2B. Keith & Jung & others can figure out their spots later, if Lee actually comes up and STEALS 2B from them. Do. It. Now. Or at least as soon as the Org deems them ready... but I'm giving them a serious push. If we lose lots of games the rest of the year... does that change anyone's expectations from where we are... right now? Hand it over to the kids and let them swim, or sink. IMO. That means trade: Urshela, Kelly, probably Canha. PS: I hold onto bullpen guys because no one is outstanding enough to get anything but low-level crap, IMO. And therefore, just let them come back next year and fight it out for a bullpen spot. Get more bullpen competition, and hope a better bullpen can, somehow, be constructed. With, or without the current guys.

PS: Can Tuomisto make the jump? If yes, one of Petry or Holl could definitely be moved, no questions asked. Tuomisto could be 3rd or 2nd pairing, depending on how he performs...

I see it as: 1st pair: LHD Walman - RHD Seider 2nd pair: LHD Edvinsson - RHD Petry (Petry doesn't belong here, but he's a vet to pair with the kid... and if Simon can move to the 1st pair then it's Walman + ... still Petry?). Can't we find a better 2nd pair RHD? Petry ain't it. Only because Simon is breaking into full-time NHL play... 3rd pair - situational. Could be Chiarot, Johansson, Maatta, Gost (will Stevie be able to re-sign him...?), Holl on the right side... Mix and match. But nothing inspiring here.

Yah... Lee has taken off...

Red Wings sign Johansson to a 1-year 2-way contract: https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-sign-defenseman-albert-johansson-to-one-year-contract-extension Red Wings sign defenseman Albert Johansson to one-year contract extension 2019 Second-round pick has skated in 119 AHL games with Grand Rapids I don't get the 2-way... they can't send him to Grand Rapids because they'll lose him. So exactly how's that 2-way gonna work? Also... the extra defenseman that needs to be moved to make room on the roster is Chiarot, not Holl. He's the most expensive LH'ed D'man and both Johansson and Edvinsson are LH'ed. He's old, getting older, and I don't trust him in 2024 to not revert to his ****ty 2022 season. I'd rather hang onto Maatta as a cheaper, younger, more effective LH'ed depth D'man. And I'd rather hang onto Holl for the same reason as a RH'ed depth D'Man. Just my 2 cents.

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Depending on who the opposing pitcher is... Yes.