1984Echoes

I've already stated specifically why I want the "big kids" called up. And you and I are already in complete agreement on one specific move (NOT GR related...): Swapping Kasper and Finnie because at least Kasper won't get knocked on his ass like Finnie is... And Kasper needs to be challenged, on the 1st line, in both our opinions... And... Finnie can just as easily spark a 3rd line with Danielson and Ras, in protected minutes, as he has (earlier) done on the 1st line for Larkin and Raymond... by doing dirty work and making smart IQ plays. Only not against other teams' top, bigger, tougher, more experienced lines. I'm not saying Wallinder Tuomisto MBN Cossa are "better" than Johansson Hamonic Talbot Soderblom... But they have size, youth, speed, reach... and even if NOT NHL playoff-level toughness, they still at LEAST have size and youth to absorb more punishment than several of the players on the current Wings roster. Like Johansson, Hamonic, and Talbot. Trial by fire. You can be upset by that if you want to... But I cold-heartedly want to toss those kids into the fire. What a Sadist am I...

I believe he's an RFA... right? Which means... they don't have to max him. They can tell him "go out and check your market..." I don't know if anyone would offer him because they know we'd just match. But if he did get an offer, I don't think it's $30 mill per. His market will be much lower than that because other teams can obviously see the same shortcomings you've outlined... The short story is... maybe he costs less than we think. Not a max player. But I don't know what those numbers/ years would be. Or if it could be structured advantageously...? NBA contracts = I know nothing.

I started to look this up not even pertaining to your reference... But multiple ideas started popping up in my head... Mel Blanc? The voice actor for Barney in the Flintstones? ... Nah! Rick Moranis from the Flintstone movies...? Nah!!! (Rick Moranis... what an actor!!!) HOLY CRAP!!! I LOVED Night Shift when I was a kid and barely even remember that movie. Michael Keaton TORTURED Henry Winkler in that! Great fun! Hilarious! I'm going to have to watch that again... And it HAD to be Keaton that uttered that line...!

Excuse me? Which numbers did I pull out of my ass? There were no formulas in my post. Are you talking about my WAG? My WILD ASS GUESS? Do you not know what a WAG is? Because yes, I feel you are being very rude to me in your post.

He hasn't done that. And I don't expect him to. But I DO expect him to evaluate all players on the team, in Detroit and throughout the Org, regardless whether he pulled them into the Org or Avila did... on his OWN set of expected parameters. If he expects his top 5 players to average a .340 OBP or better, and have some HR pop (they don't have to be 50 HR guys in my mind, especially in Comerica) but more line-drive pop (lots of doubles & triples...) then I expect him to populate the top of the order, and to search for, these types of players. He wants hitters that "command the strike zone", and pitchers. I've also seen from most of his draftees that he is searching for and values fielding capability. Not everyone, he traded for Sweeney and JHM and drafted Anderson. But his top draftees seem to all have that ability. So... Maybe Tork sticks. Or doesn't. Same with Greene. Same with Keith. Same with Dingler. I expect those players to... meet Harris's expectations. He very well may keep them if they do. Or at least if they come damn close to what he expects. I expect Hinch and he will have lots of conversations on whether each of these guys can step it up... or not. And if they don't meet his expectations, and he does move on from them... it ain't because they are attached to Avila. It's because they proved themselves not good enough and he found someone better. Or at least I hope that's how it goes.

They're going to start getting pushed around, if they aren't already. I want all the "big kids" called up from GR. Just throw them into the fire... I don't care. Let them learn EXACTLY how difficult NHL hockey is. But that's just me. I know Stevie Y won't do that.

This (and Lee) are correct.

Ummm, yeah... Context matters here. And IIRC, the context was SPECIFICALLY: "How are you going to handle the innings needed to get through the season after trading away these pitchers?" That has NOTHING to do with the playoffs. That is simply Harris calling up minor league kids (for the most part... and they were Avila AAA guys... for the most part: Brieske, Wentz, Olson, Montero, Faedo, Foley, Hurter, Hanifee... did I miss anyone?) to fill innings or grabbing a waiver wire guy to fill some innings. Sorry, but that is NOT "Harris leading the Tigers into the playoffs the past two years" (I think chas has put it exactly like that at least a few times...); which, IMO, is completely ridiculous. Harris was simply trying to fill innings. By supplying minor league call ups that Hinch/Fetter needed. That Hinch & Fetter used those guys to the effect that those players got us into the playoffs is a credit to Hinch/Fetter, NOT Harris. IMO. Harris's "plan", with Hinch/Fetter, was pitching chaos because we were basically out of starters (after Skubal), and they all agreed that was the only way to get through the innings... But Hinch & Fetter had to successfully manage those players and put them into positions to succeed. Harris doesn't get credit for that... he only gets credit for supplying the pitchers needed (all those Avila guys they called up from AAA...) for Hinch and Fetter to implement chaos. It's not zero (for Harris). but it certainly isn't "LEADING them into the playoffs." Again, that's ridiculous, IMO. 2024 (just on a WAG) was 98% Hinch/Fetter, 2% Harris. IMO.

That would be Tucker and Bregman, this year. And he made one of those offers last year to Bregman. But maybe this year he feels he needs to back off of that and wait for more of "his" type of players to percolate into the majors before he takes another swing. Or he's "once bitten, twice shy" with Boras/Bregman and doesn't want to get burned two years in a row by the same combination... Dunno... I'm just guessing.

Inside those parentheses belongs ("the least damaging spot... IE: LF or 1B, or if necessary, simply DH even though there can be only 1 in a game...")

The flipside of that is... Maybe Harris feels this is not HIS team, not yet. It might be a contender (Harris could believe so) but he still doesn't feel the team is at a high enough level to make major commitments yet... not until they are molded more closely to his expectations (not much different from what you're saying, but... slightly). Let's say in 2 years McGonigle, Clark, Hao Yu Lee & Briceno are up starting for the Tigers. Harris decides to keep Dingler and Keith and Wenceel Perez (4th outfielder)... Jobe, Melton, and several other pitchers... Rainer is in AA or AAA and on the cusp... What holes are still left on the team? Has he already moved on from Tork/ Carpenter/ Greene? He likes high contact/high OBP/with whatever power can be gained from those types of players... Would it now be HIS team (with several of those players graduated to Detroit?) I think chas was pointing this out specifically a little bit earlier on the thread... NOW if Tucker or Bregman or another "missing piece" to the team is available... Do Ilitch and Harris say "Let's go for it" and offer the BIG contract? THIS is the tell, to me, on Harris and Ilitch's future plan for the team. When it is HIS team and he's just missing "one guy", who is available in trade or FA. Also, or alternatively... if he moves on from Carpenter/ Skubal/ Mize/ Tork... I'm not squeamish about that. ThI think that is much more telling on what this Org's philosophy will be. I think at this point in time it's too early to say definitively one way or the other...

I still think Jung has an outside chance at 2B... Maybe for only a cup in 2026... Unless Torres gets nicked up a couple week or so... Jung may or may not get that period for a shot but I want to at least have that in the back of my mind as a possibility... But then Torres leaves so does Jung get a fair shot at 2B in 2027? I'm of the belief that he would...

How Skubal is handled will tell us nothing. He's on the wrong timeframe. If we pay him according to Boras, we'll be paying for his 30+ years (age), for too long (10 years), and for future injured years. So... No thanks. Wrong timeframe. Most of Avila's players are on the wrong timeframe. Dingler and Keith most likely would join in the Harris-McGonigle-Clark timeframe, possibly Jobe if he can stay healthy and reach his potential... But I think a lot of Avila players are going to be shunted off the team when Harris finds better options more akin to his philosophy.

If it's McGonigle, Clark, Briceno, or Jobe (if they reach that level)... Then... Yes.

This is so completely beyond the pale it's ridiculous: I would like to see the SPECIFIC QUOTE where someone has said this. Aside from YOU. I want receipts, as chas likes to say.

Nor Imai... not a word and he went to the Astros. Bregman chose the Red Sox (last year) which I understood... But nothing of significance for the Tigers, no Tucker, no Bregman, no... anything. I'm starting to get the feeling that Harris prefers, and is comfortable with... Only... bottom-feeding. And there's nothing wrong with that... treasures can be mined out of the bottom of the barrel sometimes (injury recoveries, Flaherty/ Finnegan, etc...). But also, some hot garbage, with last year as a really good example. It can't just be ONLY that. Bottom feeding trying to find some lost treasure. Is Harris capable of finding higher end talent on the market? Or does he even have any interest there? Or do they have zero interest in the Tigers? Or is Harris only a bottom-feeder? Can he build a top-end championship competitive team? Out of bottom feeding only? Or will he surprise us one of these years and make a franchise altering trade or free agent signing that sets us up nicely? The answers, to me... will determine whether Harris is a long-term answer to our GM position or whether he was only capable of fixing the Avila errors and... nothing more. Building a true draft and development organization is a huge plus for me. I think he has this Org positioned nicely for the future and therefore I am still heavily on his bandwagon. But the ability to build top-level championship competitive teams is the end goal to me, not building a really good farm system. So... We'll see.

The "tell" will be... If, and what, they actually do when (if) they hit NHL regular season ice.

I don't think that is any more telling than MBN or Cossa not getting called up. They (the Wings or, probably more specifically, Cleary and Stevie Y) simply like "cooking" or "seasoning" the young guys until they are basically "overdone" or "overripe", or at least it seems that way to me. They want these kids to go through championship runs with the Griffins for the "experience"... fine. They want kids to keep working on eliminating as many warts as is possible down in GR... OK, fine. But I've been watching a lot of Griffins hockey recently (I recently found an AHL "channel" on my streaming....) Cossa, Wallinder and Tuomisto all look great. Fantastic. Now... this is AHL so I don't know what that means exactly in the translation to the NHL (whenever that day comes)... And obviously the Wings are "seasoning" them, still, in the AHL... but when I watched them, they each were able to use their size to control the puck. To block the opponent from "stealing" control, through reach (Wall & Tuom), size (Wall & Tuom) or simply "blocking out the sun" and providing no easy access for an opposing goal (Cossa). I saw excellent defense, and some offensive skill from both of the two D with zone clears, outlet passes, and even a couple of goals scored. They have the size to hold their own against forechecking and AHL size... obviously NHL size and toughness is another level altogether. But I'm not a scout, so what do I know? My guess though, is that these two are viable NHL defensemen, even if we don't know where they end up in the NHL (2nd pair, 3rd pair, 7th/8th D'men?) until they actually show what they can, or cannot do, at the NHL level. And we might not even see that until 2026-27. Maybe Tuomisto's skating or toughness isn't NHL good enough to be anything more than 7th D, or Wallinder's, same. But I no longer doubt them. I've seen enough to believe they are viable options. Somewhere. On the Wings. And I believe them to be bigger, faster, and stronger than Chiarot-ASP and they could easily be the Wings 2nd pair... right now... even with a lot of rookie/young kid warts or mistakes in the NHL. But that's just me. And... Even if Stevie Y prefers to keep "seasoning" them all 2025-26 AHL season long.

I think Buium has the highest upside of our Grand Rapids young defensemen... but he'll need time to get his legs back under him on the ice so I don't know if there's even a chance we see him with Detroit this season...? Maybe? I don't know what the odds are... But I hope he takes a roster spot on Opening Day 2026-27.

I think Ras is goosed on a line with Nate and Kasper. I think McLellan has been playing those 3 on the 3rd line... a lot recently... Swap Kasper with Finnie and see if we can both fix the top line (a little more strength needed) and keep the 3rd line on an upward swing. I don't think the 3rd line suffers from a Kasper-Finnie swap.

I think it's time to push Kasper back onto the 1st line. And not just because he is bigger/ stronger than Finnie. I just think he needs to be challenged to "step up". And yeah... I'm watching Finnie constantly put on his backside and it's going to get worse the next few months. Challenge Kasper to step it up, IMO. Danielson can center Ras (or the other way around) and Finnie... and maybe we could also get ourselves an effective 3rd line. Just a thought.

Holl is ONLY the answer for dumping Hamonic... I've never said otherwise. I agree that for the playoffs and for the next few months run TO the playoffs that ASP needs to be sheltered even moreso than now so he and Chiarot should be pushed down to 3rd pairing. How do we find a good defensive 2nd pairing (that also adds some offense?)...? Why... Wallinder-Tuomisto OF COURSE!!! (you expected anything different from m'wah?) 😁

Conversely... Let's say Ivey starts to recover in a way where he is, or is very close to, where he was at the beginning of last year. He's a restricted free agent, and I don't believe there will be big contracts offered to him this offseason... too much "prove it" is needed (health/growth/ceiling/defense?), IMO... So... If he actually DID get back to last year, before this season is finished... He and Ausar start as Cade's wingmen, pushing Duncan to the bench? If Ivey is hitting his 3's, we don't lose range, and gain some speed and D and secondary ball-handling... I'm going to guess he signs a 1 or 2 year "prove it" deal this offseason, with Detroit... I have no idea for how much money... but not prohibitive... As he works for another season or two trying to establish his "true" talent level. Which, IMO, we really don't know what that is just yet...

I am absolutely certain, 110%, that there is no god. But I won't quote any scientific fact this or scientific fact that... It's based simply on an understanding of human nature. Humans are curious, creative, and storytellers... so 50,000 years ago they created "The Happy Hunting Grounds" and didn't stop there, creating woodland spirits, animal spirits, river spirits, and on and on... All based on human storytelling. Man created "god" in his own image in order to describe all the things he couldn't understand. Now... Obviously... There is zero evidence there... so... my certainty is quite unconvincing... but I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to ummm... convert. Just a possible different perspective...

And this too... There is probably a breakdown of "unaffiliated" into: 1) Atheist 2) Atheist but afraid to declare so they call themselves agnostic 3) People like yourself who are true agnostics 4) Other...? 5) Per CMR & G2's definition... some call themselves "unaffiliated" even if they are Christian if they've decided to be unaffiliated with a church and therefore... But I wouldn't know what that breakdown is...