alex

Yes, something needs to change. All IMHO. This one approach for all is not going to work for all. To me they are taking too many first pitches and guessing and taking good called third strikes too often as well. Yes, this can be said for all teams of course - but it seems all too often here and the first pitch taken for a strike has statistical backing and several have spoken about it (CPena, Gibby, CMo, etc.) This next statement can apply for all teams of course as well - as players develop different. Some make it, some do not. There are many variables and some just need to 'be let go' to come to realizations as well. Yet, why is it that WCastro and JCandalerio are quite productive now? I think it got to the point that A.J. was tired of players hacking away (Goodrum, JJones, W & HCastro, etc.) and decided the whole approach needs to be re-done and SHarris likes the 'Control the Zone' aspect and the two went with it. I do like it - however, it takes time and WCastro is a good example. I can see this happening with ABaddoo perhaps later on with another team. Point is, it may not be for each player if done extensively. Yet, all can benefit from some of this concept. Yet, if it keeps putting our players in P counts, then MLB Ps will and have exploiting it. We have little power and speed (and the speed game is coming back a bit). I think SHarris needs to change some of what he seeks in players. Stop with all the 'defensive versatility' and 'work the count AAA' middle INF types. The FO needs to acquire some players from outside. A good FO can make trades. The SHarris core concept just before we do anything just buys time. Kick the can down the road again. I have said it many times. Identify talent, try to acquire even if it means giving up a prospect or two (again, does not have to be Top 5, each deadline proves this). Sweeten some trade pots. It is getting to that time of the year (the trade deadline). A good FO is always looking to acquire talent. Not 'wait for a core' then magically all FAs for position of need show up and want to sign with Detroit - that is fantasy. Player acquisition can happen at anytime and often when least suspected. As I have asked - does this FO have the ability to negotiate Trades? If not then a total build through the draft is not realistic (yet, I agree it is the best way to get most of a team together). Lets acquire 1-2 before the off season even begins.

This is very true - but could we add a prospect (not one of our top 5 per say) ourselves and get a better player. This is the art of negotiating a deal and a good GM does upgrade a club with trades. I do not believe for a minute we have no prospects to trade but our top 5 that anyone would want. Not buying it. Our farm system is NOT that bad. Sweeten the pot and get a 'player' - if we end up selling. If not, then why can't we trade a marginal prospect and get an expiring contract/salary. We still may have a run in us 'IF' our SP stays healthy and we can add a decent bat or two (that may be dreaming, lol). I also find it hard to believe the Guardians and KC will stay this strong.

Agreed this is where the FO needs to make some impact. Can SHarris acquire a close to MLB ready talent for a position of need? With said, I would be for signing Flaherty to a 2-3 year higher AAV deal perhaps (emphasis on two). They will end up signing someone (or two SPs) on say 1-2 year deals. That has been the MO so far. Two years ago Boyd and Lorenzen. This past year Flaherty and Maeda. Same previously with SF (even more so, maybe they were closer to contending?).

Hmm, I know he needs ABs, but I am not so sure/sold on RKreidler at all. ZShort may be the better utility player.

Baby steps - but in the right direction. You got to believe the ability is there. Tork does, which is a good thing. The team hopefully can get some points through (yet, he has his ways it seems). He has to be able to make some adjustments - and this seems to be a constant in the game of baseball, he has to understand/see this throughout his career. This is harder for some to do. To be able to believe in his own ability not only to hit/field but ALSO to make some adjustments (based on perhaps some other observations as well). Maybe a little less IPad, techno, etc. and more 'play ball and enjoy'. I have heard A.J. mention before (paraphrasing) 'he needs to get his head out of the IPad.' Another positive, he seemed quite frank and humbled during his Toledo interview. This has happened to others before. Some come back better and stronger from it while others do not have the overall capacity to get back. Those Paul Konerko comparisons look pretty good now, lol. Yet, Tork is Tork and I am sure most here would quite happily settle for even a little less than a Konerko-like career 😉 Go Tigs!

Good points. Like players that have to make adjustments to succeed, management and game plans have to do so as well. If you do not then you are to easily strategized against. I agree 'controlling' the zone has some merit - but it does not mean each and every time. Too many times are players are behind in the count. We still swing the least amount from what I heard tonight at the first pitch of any team in the league - what is it getting us? You can say it is the players, but... Some players are not built for that. Yet, working the zone could help players over time as well. IMHO, if a player wants to swing at a certain pitch and sees it on the first or second delivery - put 'working the count' aside and rake. Again, IMHO, that approach is not for everyone if the FO is ONLY looking for that type of player, then they are really restricting themselves, and that is not good. Just look at how many players who had talent through the games history who 'would not fit in' - we should be looking for players who have talent, whether they work the count or not. I am for several that do - but not a whole lineup!

True. Yet, IF Rushing is a guy they really like (LHB, C-1B, blocked in LA by star players) and they are entertaining trading Flaherty (if healthy at the time, the LAD have interest and we do not plan on re-signing him, even to a shorter AAV deal, etc.) then you come up with a package to get Rushing that includes Flaherty. This is what I have been talking about. The ability to add a prospect (NOT top 5) and make some kind of package deal ex 2 for 2, etc. I have been saying all along and hoping our FO (SHarris & JGreenberg) have the ability to identify, then 'negotiate' theses type of deals, til they get the/a guy they like. A good FO organization has the ability to do this. The above is just an example.

He did sell Lorenzen last year (IMHO). The return looks decent so far. I have been looking on to see if this FO can acquire players outside the organization via trade. It will be very important because anyone who thinks you can build through the draft only and then the FA position(s) you need just shows up, and will sign here, is fooling themselves (including this FO if they think that). IMHO, there has to be player acquisitions. I have mentioned it over and over. Maybe trade from a position of strength or value for value. I still feel a good FO needs someone that can negotiate a deal. There is a knack to this. Do we have that? We have some prospects (I do not mean our top 3-4 either) that another team may be willing to obtain. Maybe they have a player they wish to move on from that is signed. Maybe they have a prospect that is blocked that we like, etc. A good FO can do this. SHarris and JGreenberg need to show that they can identify and project (good scouting, analytics, etc.) and come up with some players via trades. As for Flaherty, still a ways to go. He has to stay healthy and pitch reasonably well. Heck, maybe they hang onto him if a deal is not worth it - do they not get a draft pick if they lose him? that right there has a certain value. Maybe re-sign him to a higher AAV short term deal. I do not think SHarris has any intentions on signing Ps to longer term deals. His history is 'short term' and sometimes pillow contracts. I am actually for this approach when it comes to SPs. They 'may' need to make an exception with Skubal. Yet, if that intention is not there, then they may entertain offers for him at some point. There are two big factors also in relation to building a roster - Health is the big 'elephant in the room' and in today's game - a good GM knows this. Luck is there as well. Yet, preparation can favor those who understand this.

I actually agree with you. He might be decent though and not a huge price tag. I would prefer to find a 'close to/on the cusp' type prospect, like say where Jordan Westburg or Michael Busch were at this time last year. That could cost more and we may have that with Jace Jung already. Maybe Micheal Vargas of LAD is interesting. Good at multiple minor league stops and not 'yet' at the MLB level. It is all a crap shot. That is where real scouting comes in. Yet, no question a certain amount of luck is involved. We can all say I would like so and so ex Josh Jung or Evan Carter or Elly De La Cruz. That is more hindsight, not to mention the cost... Who do you think might be a 'potential' target to help the club?

IMHO, 'NO' way on the trade - but appreciate your idea. I like Arenado, but at 33 and 5 years left, St Louis will be looking to get out of that for awhile... Jung and Madden should garner more than that. I think more along the lines of Jung and Madden (and maybe a regarded A level prospect ex 20-25 range) to LAD for SS/Inf Gavin Lux and one of C's Diego Cartaya or Thayron Liranzo. or something like Madden and Hao-Yu Lee to Colorado for Ryan McMahon. Four years younger (29) signed through 2027 for 'apx' 60 million remaining. Can play 3B, 1B, 2B and LH bat. To cycle back, the exception would be as Longgone posted 'unless Arenado might be a last vet piece' on a WS contending team and even then, at that point, they should be able to find a vet on the FA market for lesser years and money.

I do think they are moving forward. Scouting, drafting, development, facilities, nutrition, analytics, etc. Yet, IMHO, the 'knack' to make a deal will also be needed.

I agree, enjoy the games. Baseball is a way to 'somewhat' relax, take your mind off other things. It can get you thinking in another way. We are fans. We would like to win the game - yet, objectively one team wins each game and one loses. All will no doubt lose 60 games each year no matter how good they are. That is a lot of loses - but not when taken into perspective of an entire season. If you enjoy baseball - you are ahead of the game. I am simply making an observation based on what I have seen so far with this current FO group. I am hoping the have a 'knack' and can help improve the team by means of a deal here and there. History shows this needs be done, here and there, to help 'sustainability' for a good organization. If not, often steps back are taken. Enjoy the boys of summer!

I would not do that deal. IMHO, the Jays would not get that equivalent from any other team either.

I am not saying Scott Harris is stupid. On the contrary, I think he is pretty smart. However, to work a deal one has to have an ability, a knack, a savvy for this type of thing - some have this and some do not. I am wondering if anyone in this /FO office has this ?!? For AA, he had abilities in certain areas. He did some good things ex Miggy, JD, the trade of DNorris for Olsen, his own scouting years ago... he could use the owners funds ex JUpton, Zimmerman, ERod, Javy, etc... but he could not work a good deal when he had JV and JD to deal. He/even many of us 'thought' the JV deal 'could' be decent. Go back to that time and quite a few people did. Yet, as I said injuries are huge (see FPerez) and prospects are just that. He had proven commodities both times and unfortunately those deals were not positive for this franchise (no offense Jake R., as you are doing alright) and set us back (as did his FA signings). As for DD he traded a few top prospects at the time ex JTurner to FL (Sanchez and Omar), GKapler (Juan Gone deal), etc. and they really did not work out for the 'prospects'. Yet, he could negotiate the good deals ex CGuillen, DFister, for even marginal players/prospects, etc. and three way deals ex Max, AJ, etc. He had his short comings also (we all do). Again I am not advocating dealing our top prospects. Those lists are volatile. We see MLP Pipeline, BA, Fan graphs, etc. Heck for instance the Tigs could rate RCampos as their no. 4 prospect, another team as the no. 5 on our list and what fans see may be no. 18 on a public list. These are not negatives toward the current regime. They are observations. I stand by that a deal can be done at anytime to improve this org - My questioning is 'Can the current FO/SHarris improve this team with trades?' and IMHO if the current FO cannot do this, whether now or in 2 mos. or 1 year - then it will be much harder to succeed and we may be eventually looking at another rebuild. Also, I agree with Toddwert, we do have some talent in the organization. Perhaps more than we have had in awhile. I do not think it is ' a lot of crap' as was mentioned. Other GMs/FOs here and elsewhere did & do deals with less. I am 'hoping' this FO can accomplish some good deals. We all know you have to acquire players via trades at times, not just waiver pick-ups and ownership spending. Again, identify, target and 'negotiate' the deal. Just as Tampa did with IParedes and MANY others with trades through history. Is this FO capable of doing this? Just a question that has not been answered positively, IMHO, as of yet. I am hoping. Go Tigs 😊

Thank you. Your posts and that of many others are/is appreciated.

When I say anytime it does not mean you think of a trade and make it in an instant. You know this of course. You look at players over time (scouting, project-ability, etc.). Not every team evaluates the exact same the way with their priorities ex 'control the zone' may have priority over 'raw talent' for the Tigers, etc. I refer back to the one trade I mentioned (there have been many). Tampa did not just look at Paredes one day and say 'get him'. They looked over time, saw something, we may not have evaluated him the same way. When Greene went down, we asked about AMeadows and - wholla a deal was done. They evaluated Paredes, had a different view than what we did. I am not saying for better or worse, the point is - it was different. Then you throw in teams looking to shed some payroll (as tenacious D mentions below) as Tampa was. The deal itself may have taken time as far as Tampa was concerned. To us the fans it came out of nowhere. This is what I mean. Anytime a deal can get done. The Tigers can do the same thing at anytime. They may be doing so right now. They should be identifying, being realistic and taking 'some' actions ( a priority list, project-ability, finding out how coachable, etc.). SHarris has been with Detroit 1 1/2 years now. He was with SF and the Cubs before that. My question still is 'does this FO, SHarris, JGreenberg, etc. have the ability to acquire via Trades talented players? Do they have the ability to negotiate deals? It does not take an extensive amount of time to do this. Either you have this savy (ex ability to negotiate, bluff, be up front, play poker, etc.) or you do not. If you have some inclination for it you might be able to develop it to an extent. IMHO, AA did not have this, yet DD before him did. Does this group (in particular SHarris) have it? They are not rookies here. If they do not have the ability to work deals, then just drafting and developing (the most important aspect of course) can only go so far. Yes, ownership can back the FO (and it did with AA and DD) - but they still may have to negotiate against other teams for good FAs and more importantly negotiate/work trades. IF this FO cannot we may be in for another rebuild during another FO changeover. I am hoping this regime has 'some' ability here. Yes, we need to be able to trade some of our prospects (I once again and am not saying the top 5 or so). Some teams may value some of our prospects higher than we do (see above). We as fans do not have the same 'reference' material as a good FO does. Yes, all FO have data - but the point is they may not all have the same valuation profiles. We can make deals and acquire players. We are getting to the point, if our players stay healthy - and with P that is a big 'if' - that we will soon start to see whom we may acquire either as 'sellers or buyers' (or even both). The time is coming. IMHO, this 'core identification' idea is simply a way to stay 'idle' and buy time on the job. Where are those 'calculated risks' ? Identify a list, go after, take a risk (on a younger appealing player or expiring contract) - and negotiate the deal(s). I remain steadfast. It can happen at anytime - if the FO has this ability. We shall see and it should not take 2 more years to find this out as we wait for another 'core' or 'the core' to develop.

I do agree. Yet, it is the job of the front office to identify and trade for players that perhaps another team is 'not' valuing as high in regards. There are many examples of this. I could research and come up with a good list. Two years ago Tampa got IParedes as one good example. I am not advocating trading a lot of crap based on players of 'what are you doing for me now' per say judgement. Teams have different ways of judging talent. Some teams may value Ty Madden or Justice Bigbie or Max Anderson, etc. You create a small package and 'get the guy' you feel may be on the cusp. That is good scouting. Having a real eye for talent. Maybe that player is blocked by another good young player or two in that same orginization (agai the LAD and Baltimore come to mind). SHarris wants only players that 'control the zone' so to speak. Maybe other teams are not as much into that idea. Maybe SHarris needs to make an exception to that profile a time or two. It simply cannot work for everyone. Point again being SHarris/the FO can acquire a good young player (or one that will be) at any time. No payroll restriction. No big time FA contract. No need to trade only your best prospects per say to do it. Identify, know the other teams wishes (no do not get fleeced) and do it. This is what I am looking to see - can SHarris, this FO do these type of deals. Do they have this 'moxie'?!? This will determine a lot moving forward. If he does not have the ability to make deals (even with a FA) - well then - the baton will be passed on and that will not bode well for fans as we 'rebuild' again.

Thank you sir 🙏

Thanks. I appreciate the serious (and true) fans that are all here. We all have our thoughts and opinions. These (and more) are my observations so far of the current regime.

All IMHO, I have been saying for some time SHarris (and the current regime) have to start adding the right pieces yesterday. This 'core group' thing is just kicking the can down the road. All GMs have the job to not only identify what the team will look like now, but two years from now and further. Current Team: they have to be able to tell what players fit. They have been evaluating now for 1 1/2 yrs. It does not have to be conclusive, but a good idea should be there and if not - the wrong people are in charge. The other players then can be potentially dealt if better value can come back (in their eyes). Trades: Here is where some things can be done 'now'. They do not have to wait. Identify a player(s) they like and get one or two. You do not have to trade your top 4-5 prospects per say to get a player on a team that is young but his position is blocked (see LAD, Balt., etc.) and/or another MLB decent player who a team may wish to rid ex expiring contract, etc. IF we do not think Mize, Manning, Tork, Baddoo, etc. are not 'core' players then I bet there are teams out there willing to take some of these under their wing. I would like to see a value for value trade. Perhaps we see someone who we feel can help us out, who is in the same boat on another team - then we can use that phrase 'come here and get better' . Prove it. A good GM can identify and make trades. We need to find a Carlos Guillen, JD Martinez, Doug Fister, GSheffield, etc. type. Sure not all will work out, but some players have to be obtained this route... So far? Maybe Vierling, Lee, JHM. Yet, (a lot more versatile INF types who seemingly 'work the count': Kennedy, Maton, Rizzo, Skolak, Nevin, etc. have not worked). No it is not easy but a good GM can do this. Free agents: I do not think you can just say, 'OK we are pretty good right now and we need to add a player' then all of a sudden a particular player becomes a free agent. FAs are random. Just because we need 'X' does not mean 2-3 are ready for the taking - or that position is even strong in FA at that time. Besides other teams have interest AND Comerica is not a great sell for offensive type FAs (pay or not - the good ones can often choose). That is why trades are so important. Identify and go after. To me it does not seem this team is really interested any FA players to long term deals (maybe not even their own-yikes) - and I actually agree here probably 90% especially SPs. SHarris has a track record of short term deals. Incentive type deals. Ps that are the rebound (did this at SF as well). Sometimes this may work ex Rodon & Cobb ('22), Lorenzen ('23) and so far Flaherty ('24) and sometimes not Junis & Boyd ('22), Boyd ('23) and so far Maeda ('24 & '25). Its a crap shot and 50% is not bad really. Here the front office needs to identify and then have ownership's backing. AA got this far, then FA failures and injuries prevailed. IMHO, AA did not have anywhere close to the right development people for most of his GM tenure, then what little he did later was too late (ex AJ and Garko). SHarris seems to understand the FA aspect part of this. Drafting and development: This needs to take place and is number one with putting together a mid to small market team. I/we hope this has and is getting better... My point is once again, acquiring good players needs to take place. Not all will be through drafting and development and certainly SHarris is not a big FA type GM (and maybe for good reason). Good players can be added through trades. Some of it is luck and the most under rated aspect is injuries. They are always there, hence depth, especially with pitching, is a must. My Humble Conclusion: I would like to see SHarris (JGreenberg and this group) find some 'gold nuggets' with a couple of trades. My biggest point is there is no need to wait here. This can happen at any time. Find the players. If he cannot do this - then he/his group is only going to be 'holding up the bridge' for the next regime - who will want 'time' to rebuild and give us their rendition of 'the plan'. ; ) Go Tigs!

I think they have to make a decision on KHiura as well quite soon. Now, I/we know he is not tearing it up at AAA (though has had a couple decent spells). He may get a look see here as he has had some success in the past and they may not wish to lose him for nothing (at least not yet). If an IL for Canha they could also consider JHM or even Parker (as many here have already mentioned) - but maybe PM still needs more time at AAA.

This is where SHarris and the FO need to be pretty good and is where AA failed for much of his tenure (see JD, JV, etc - but did well with the DNorris for ROlsen deal). Maybe they offer JFlaherty a higher AAV deal ex 2 or 3 yrs, this would also allow Jack to be a FA again at 31-32? IF we deal Flaherty (or esp Skubal) it has to have an 'impact' type return. In a Skubal case it could set us back years once AGAIN if the return is 'bad'. It is all a gamble, health 'always' plays a large part here and will again at the deadline - if said players are healthy. My point all along has been does SHarris and this new regime have the ability to identify close to ready MLB talent and get a deal done. He does not have to wait for the deadline either. He/they can make a deal at anytime trading a couple prospects from our system (not in the top 5-6), to a team in which a player at AA-AAA may be blocked by a young MLB talented player (again see LAD, Baltimore, etc.). If SHarris cannot do this, then it will not matter as any CEO/GM worth their weight has to do this at times or it will be all on the next regime as another 'rebuild' takes place. The key is 'player development' - If we are not developing 'bats' it makes no sense (IMHO) to give out 5yr+ deals to multiple FAs and get hand tied to several players - as we all know how often long term FA deals end up. IMHO, we can still compete this year if: - We stay pretty healthy - Tork figures some things out - FO acquires a bat (or two) ex close to MLB ready talent and/or someone another team wishes to move on from ex an existing contract, a FA after this yr and they are not competing, etc. - Go Tigs!

I/we obviously see Javy is not living up to expectation. He is trying imho, yet, he is who he is. With said, he is second on the team in RBIs with 21 (at the moment) and if several more players had 21 RBIs we would have several more wins without question. If he is that bad - what does that say about the rest of this team. Seems when Greene stopped hitting the Ls started to pile up. He has been bad at the plate (check out the last 16-17 games) and not so hot in the field either lately. Is something wrong with him or is it simply a slump (and a long one). It is a long season, I have said it many times SHarris and the GM need to make a move/statement (or two). He has to have the ability to work a trade. Regardless of where we are as a team. Evaluating, etc. he has to have the ability to do this. It can be done at anytime or the next regime can blame 'him' instead of everyone blaming AA (and yes, AA inability to make a decent trade among other things put the franchise back). I just heard Chris Getz on the WSox broadcast and he said he has been fielding more calls recently about potential players. Again SHarris needs to make a decent move, now, a month from now, etc. If he does not have this ability - well then the next rebuild will start in another 2-3 years. This team could be 'decent' now. They were earlier. They simply have too many black holes in the lineup.

I do understand that things take time. However, with that said I would like to see SHarris acquire a 'mainstay' player (bat) or two via a trade. I do not feel you have to trade Jobe or Clark, etc., or any top 6 or so prospects to get another player or two in here (as many here feel). Heck, SD acquired LArraez just last week for prospects NOT in there top 6-7 ratings. It happens fairly regularly and this is what also contributes to being a good GM. The ability to negotiate a deal and also to get a FA when the opportunity arises. They could compete this year really or maybe not? Maybe in two or three years. That is not going to matter if Harris cannot make deals. Simply, he has to show he can do this or the rebuild will go on into the next regime. NOBODY builds a team just on drafting. However, I do think drafting quality players is the main course. Once again we have turned over the player development, scouting, analytics, etc. departments. All good. A good GM has to be able to acquire outside players here and there. There have in house 'some possibilities' Vierling, Ibanez, etc. - yet, these two guys do not work the count (see BB totals, however J HMalloy does do that)). That philosophy in general has to be looked at and to keep in mind it may NOT work for every player. I get controlling the zone but I feel as do many, that having an ability to drive in runs is just as, if not more important than getting on base. Go Tigs.

I agree and well put - They do NOT have to be mutually exclusive.