Tiger337

Or maybe it goes back to the theory that some guys just get hurt more easily than others whether it's through stress or impact.

They have really been hit hard with injuries, but we also need to remember that Rodriguez and Pineda came here with injury histories.

Is this real? Santa Claus?

Wow, Jim Woods! That brings back memories. I grew up listening to Martin and Woods doing the Red Sox on the radio in the 70s. Whenever I couldn't get good reception on WJR, I would tune into those two. They were a good team. Not as good as Harwell and Carey but really good. Then the station inexplicably fired them which nobody thought was a good idea.

The flu is usually a worse outcome than Covid at this point.

Next year at this time, we'll have a whole new set of pitching situations that we didn't anticipate.

It won't be a problem. Pitching depth "problems" always take care of themselves.

They can all make a good case. I would rank them 1. Whitaker 2. Freehan 3, Lolich. I probably wouldn't put Lolich in because there are a number of pitchers a little ahead of him that haven't gotten in but I think he's done enough for strong consideration. Whitaker's candicacy has been beaten to death. His lifetime numbers make him a shoe in. He is an odd case in that he has had more good years than almost any player ever, but never had a career year. He was TOO consistent and too quiet. Freehan is definitely on the short list of best catchers not yet in the HoF and I think there is a catcher shortage.

The 87 pennant race was fantastic, one of my best Tiger memories. Overall, I agree they were a disappointment after '84 though. They had a potential dynasty, but management did not seize the moment.

Too bad he didn't rise to the occasion in '87.

All because he represents science and didn't bow down to king donald.

Lolich is borderline, but more deserving than Morris.

Yes, Faedo has been a pleasant surprise so far. He wasn't someone I was previously envisioning as a future starter. We will learn more obout his durability thiks season.

So, it's just a typical Pineda year!

Lolich finished in the top 10 in FIP 5 times. What he did in 1971, 1972 was extraordinary though - pitching 375 and 327 innings and still finishing in the top ten in ERA+. That was like something out of the deadball era. He finished in the top three in Cy Young voting both yrears.

His stats should have been better in 1968 because the mound was higher and the strike zone was bigger than the later years. You personally may not have been surprised by his post-season because you recognized his ability and he was a good strikeout pitcher even in '68, but his performance was not especially good in '68. 28th in ERA+ and 19th in FIP in a ten team league with a relatively light workload. In your opinion, why was he sent to the bullpen? That's not what usually happens to a great pitcher having a great season. Some players that had arguably their best season in 1968 were Willie Horton, Bill Freehan, Jim Northrup and Dick McAuliffe.

Lolich was oine of the best Lolich was a great pitcher, one of the top five in Tigers history for his career. Given how strong pitching was in 1968, I just don't see how you can say how it was one of his good seasons. Since he pitched fewer innings in a pitcher friendly environment in 1968, his rate stats should have been better than other years and they weren't. Mayo Smith sent him to the bullpen for a while, so he must have been unimpressed. He was certainly fantastic in the post-season, but that was a surprise.

That is Javier Baez! He goes hot and cold and that's not going to change.

Lolich was mediocre in 68 during one of the best pitching years in the history of the game. If you look at his pitching log, it shows that he was sent to the bullpen because he pitched several bad games in a row. I also just read the same thing in Cantor's book "The Tigers of '68". He was very frustrated by his performance. Things started to click for him late in the year.

They get hurt and when you are develiping pitchers you don't know which ones are going to be durable.

You don't just throw a bunch of crap pitchers out there. Of course you try to get good pitchers, but most pitchers have ups and downs so you can't rely on them to do it every year. The year all the pitchers do well at the same time is the year you win...if you have hitters in place.

Of course it did. he was a great pitcher. Take away a great hitter and it falls apart too.

Well yeah the Atlanta model! But how many teams have been able to do that for any length of time? The problem with pitching is that it's really hard to keep a good staff together for a long time. It's easier for keep a hitting team together for for the long haul.

2011-2014 was more pitching than hitting, but they still barely made the playoffs in three of those yerars. They wouldn't have won without Cabrera and his supporting cast.

That speaks to my point that you build around offense long term and hope that one year you have enough pitching to get to post-season. It's hard to build around pitching long-term because they get hurt so often. If you already have the batters in place every year, then the year your pitchers put it together will be a good one.