pfife

it's the fascists at fault if the country goes to the fascists I'm not onboard with whitewashing fascism to bash progressives, ymmv

Honest question - how many more democrats are needed to be elected to pass this bill as it is right now? Does anyone here thing Manchin was the only that was against it? Do we assume Sinema is too, and thus we'd need to elect *at least* two more Democrats? Is it more realistic to think they need more like 4 or 5 more democratic senators to pass this bill? What if a portion of the 4 or 5 elected are not actually in support if it, so even more are needed? I personally think there are others out there that are very very glad to have let Manchin take the heat for sinking that bill b/c they wanted to vote against it. At some point, it seems fair to me to think, well maybe the Democratic party doesn't actually want to pass BBB. If I'm a voter that then wants things that are in BBB, why would I vote for the Democrats? Why is this unreasonable?

I agree with electing more Democrats for sure. I totally don't think that criticizing voters for potentially not voting for Democrats is the way to get people to elect more Democrats.

I think the midterms are all an enthusiasm match. And enthusiasm is high on the other side. You got mf's going to freaking school board meetings where they don't even have freakin kids right now on that side. Who's ever that motivated? meanwhile the Democrats are basically just not-republican'ing. I mean I know they're doing judges but they need to do the things that motivate their voters too. in a lot of ways the midterms after the election remind me of the championship team, the following season, just doesn't have the hunger for winning and it makes it difficult to repeat. I hear commentators say that stuff on sports all the time and it seems similar, they need to keep their side motivated.

well we'll see if they're going to do the smart thing and try to pass the stuff that will actually have the votes. Just take all of the crap out he objects to and pass the rest. being not trump isn't going to win the election this time unfortunately

planning to redouble my fortitude to fulfill my moral responsibility to vote for democrats because joe manchin votes to the left of his constituency except when he doesn't because negative partisanship is a thing

not sure why you're being so condescending with me still after this performance you just had, but whatever you already wasted your time bro I didn't have anything to do with it. Sadly, by quoting me, you also wasted my time with it. You seem to have no concern about wasting my time so I'm not feeling so compelled to provide a corresponding evaluation.

So yeah, it's a fair question to ask what you're trying to discuss with me since you literally started a discussion with me and then argued both sides of the discussion.

oh boy...... you in fact quoted the tweet I posted from lawboy. That is why we're chatting now. It's in the thread. the least you could do is be accurate about what is easily provable in this thread before stealing my schtick man

So you're on both sides of the coin. You get to argue he's to the left of his constituency, as quoted here, and also argue that he's only doing what his constituency would allow because negative partisanship is a thing - which you also did within the last 10 minutes. I'm not sure what you want to discuss with me. You literally have all of it covered. I guess since you've argued both arguments people should vote Democratic no matter what they and Manchin do.

This is just more of what was in the tweet. Doesn't matter what Manchin does, it's voters moral responsibility to vote for Democrats anyways. That's what this thread has been all day. The notion that voters owe anyone their votes is utterly ridiculous.... and also the pathway to defeat.

I guess every time polling is brought up by anyone we just mention negative partisanship now if we don't like the polling? Fuck if I would have known that I wouldn't have used the "hidden trump voters" approach to blowing up polls

ok I already responded to that so I guess you win because you repeated yourself?

but he voted for other Joe Biden's bills so is it a new thing?

my understanding is BBB polls quite well in WV

Yup.

I agree that there are other Democrats that are probably not in favor of it and let Manchin take the heat.

Hearing BBB is dead, Manchin said no on Fox News Sunday just now. 🤔 how can we get young ppl to vote for democrats?

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1472266686921388038?t=dhbJZQT-yX34XEbv6H3bWg&s=19

Maybe a politician could do something to court their votes.

The right on this forum says the left loves Biden. You can either believe what the right on this forum says, or you can believe the truth.

Ross while reaping..... Ross while sowing

I'm sure in the right wing fact free zone no one will hold these fools accountable