Betrayer

I don't love investing in big men not named Jokic in today's NBA, but I think they will after how he's elevated his game since Ausar got in the starting lineup and JB made some defensive adjustments to account for his limitations. He's also continued to show flashes of passing and handling on the offensive end. The playoffs will be a big determining factor for his final value. Which leads to the real question, "how much?". Just don't make the contract untradeable (i.e., max contract) and he can be an asset that leaves you with options down the line. Edited to add: Claxton got a 25M descending contract last year and Hartenstein got about 29M. I expect it would be somewhere in that range.

Holland was always going to be the more developmental pick. You may be right in the end, but I don't think we can call it in year one. Matas is currently getting more minutes on a worse team and he's a year older, so straight numbers don't tell the tale. Their per 100 stats are actually very similar. Yes, Matas is currently a better shooter, but his shot is nothing to write home about either. I'm willing to let this one play out for another couple years.

One of the few times I was right about a draft prospect.

I guess Billups learned something from what Pop did to him in the close-out game of the '05 finals. Let him feel comfortable for a half and then flip the script in the second half to turn up the pressure. Luckily here the Pistons had enough of a lead and Tobias came up big to stabilize the team and secure the win.

Feels like a must-win so we can go 2-2 on this road trip and at least beat the two weaker teams. Problem is that it's also a back-to-back and the dreaded last game in a road trip against a scrappy Portland team that's 5-5 in their last 10.

Two tough losses in a row. You're seeing teams blitz Cade a lot and it's causing all kinds of problems for this offense. Luckily the defense has been pretty sound and it's keeping them in games. Not sure how you solve that problem with this roster, but expect it to be dialed up to 11 in the playoffs when teams actually strategize to exploit weaknesses and mismatches.

We should resurrect that thread for some comedy. I recall 90% of folks on here killing him for that extension.

MVP. Should be his 5th in a row. Embiid got the pity MVP in '23 and Shai will get it this year because of voter fatigue.

Can't wait for the documentary about this in 10 years. This is the fastest and most epic failing of a franchise I've ever seen. From NBA finals to poverty franchise in a snap.

However it works out, I just don't want the Bucks in round 1. If they pass the Knicks and take 3rd, then we need to pass the Pacers and take 5th.

Agreed. Only question now is if he's second team. I haven't done the math on which players won't be eligible, but there are a lot of guys who missed significant time this year.

Not a fan of starting Beasley in the absence of Harris. It moves Ausar to the 4 and gives away the height/length advantage you use to create disruption and get out in transition. I'd say start Simone, but he's been trash so maybe Holland or Stew. They only turned LA over 9 times in this game so they're best offense (transition) failed them and they weren't hitting threes to make up for it. And then there's the Harden stuff... Now that Embiid is out, he's the worst player in the NBA to watch. Foul merchant, flopping at every fingertip that touches him and getting to the line 20 times - more times than the entire Piston team. Cade took more shots and 6 less threes than Harden, but only got to the line 6 times. Harden's game is trash basketball and somehow Silver thinks that's what fans want to watch. Terrible game from Duren, but he was also put in a terrible position all night with penetration causing him to leave Zubac who just cleaned up because nobody was there to put a body on him after Duren went to help. I'll say it. They really missed Tobias. Partly because he's been a solid vet for the past several months but also partly because this team doesn't have any NBA PFs outside of him.

At his age, this could very likely be career ending, not just season. With AD about to turn 32 in a few days, and always injured anyway, Dallas is heading to rebuild territory.

It's crazy because if home court is up for grabs in a 4/5 matchup with the Bucks we could wind up with what amounts to 2 extra playoff games in that series. Not that I want any part of the Bucks in a first round series. Indy would be the most fun with the all the ejections and suspensions that are sure to come. These teams hate each other and I can't see Stew and Holland making it through that series without getting tossed and/or suspended at least once. Knicks could be fun based upon how we've played them so far, but you're playing 5 on 9 with the refs and Adam Silver all needing NYK to advance to the second round for ratings.

Back-peddle away. It's ok to admit you were just trying to be edgy and it was a bad hot take 🤣 The only coach who considers 7th the "back of the rotation" is Tibbs and Beasley would be 6th man on that team anyway, along with nearly every other contending team. And that's before we get into the "good" teams you mentioned, where it's not even a question. We've been talking on here for 20+ years now and you know I like to be just as critical as you, but we have to get out of the doom and gloom occasionally and give credit where it's due. Nobody expected this season's outcome and these guys are playing good ball. Try to enjoy it for a minute.

Yea, I'm sure you predicted a 20 point win by the Pistons before the game. So expected 🤣 I hope you placed a bet and won a bunch of money since it was so obvious the Pistons were going to beat the champs with their abundance of All-Stars still playing

If he strings together a few seasons like this, then he's in All-Star consideration.. The only other player to have these shooting numbers has been Curry (he did it 5 times). Acting like he's the 9th man on a contender is simply not wanting to back down from pre-season hot takes, when everyone on here was saying that these three vets are the same as Bogie, Burks, and Harris. The fact is he's neck and neck with the 6th man on Boston (a contender) and just outplayed him. Looking through the other contender's rosters, he'd be 6th man or starter on most of those teams except maybe Cleveland after they got Hunter where he might be 7th man.

The Pistons just beat an NBA superpower with their only All-Star having a bad shooting night. Let that sink in. First I need to say that Beasley as 9th man on a good/contending team is a laughable take. This is a good team right now. The dude is a league recognized 6th man candidate who outplayed the other 6th man candidate handily last night. He's quite literally doing things this year that only Curry has done with his shooting percent on that volume. The "this is a bad team" stuff I keep hearing is simply doubling down on bad takes from the offseason and stubbornness to come off of preconceived bias. It's so easy to be a contrarian because only 1 team wins the title so you can always say "see, they didn't win it all", but bad teams don't do what the Pistons are doing night in and night out this season. And the best part is that the average age of the core players is 22. JB deserves coach of the year if this continues. Cleveland has been up and coming for a while and if you told people before the season that they'd win a ton of regular season games, it would have at least been in the realm of possibility. No way anyone would believe you if you told them what the Pistons are doing. No way in hell. He's got this entire team buying in on both ends. Guys like Beasley, Harris, and THJ that everyone ridiculed in the offseason for their defense are giving full effort on that end and making a difference. Every one of them had key defensive plays in that game last night. Speaking of which, its time to give Tobias some love as the solid vet floor-raiser many of us predicted he would be in the offseason. He's been very good for a while now. The three point shot could still use some work, but he's been clutch in so many other categories and is at the top of the league in +/-. And finally...Ausar. The last time I witnessed a Piston completely control a game without scoring was Ben Wallace. Ausar in the starting lineup has been that crazy. The number of steals, stops, extra possessions, and running opportunities he generates is unreal. This dude is a lock for All Defense first team every year if they ever let him start playing 30 minutes per night.

He has definitely improved his effort on the defensive end. He's also getting more reps as a passer with Cade getting doubled and turning it over less in those situations. Those are important improvements for sure. That said, the largest improvements in Duren's defensive play have come from JB changing the defensive scheme to trap instead of drop, Ivey's injury, and Ausar moving into the starting lineup. It's no coincidence that he's look passable on defense since those three things have helped hide his deficiencies. I'm still very on the fence about an extension unless it's a really sweet deal. I just struggle with the concept of paying big money to a rim running Center who can't shoot and isn't a positive defender in this version NBA. I'm excited for the team to make the playoffs because I think we'll learn a lot about Duren. Stew is the perfect big man for the playoffs, so it'll be interesting to see what JB does.

Can we talk about Cade's bag of moves? Pull-up three, in-out dribble, post hook, mid-range, drives, you name it. He can score in so many ways and he's still learning. This dude is a force and will absolutely cost this team more money in the off-season because he's going to make All NBA third team. Oh, let's not forget about the 3 steals as he's becoming more of a 2-way player as well. Say what you will about the Tobias signing, but he's been really good for this team. All the players have talked about his leadership on and off the court. His three point shot is still struggling, but he's been good on the board, in the post, making the right play, and just a calming presence when they hit those scoring lulls. He's at the top of the league in +/- as well. Ausar is our Draymond and I love every minute of it. Harden was 5-22 last night with 7 turnovers and a -22 rating with Ausar in his shirt most of the time (Schroder hounded him a bit as well). Yea, he'll have some awkward moments, but the dude had 6 stocks in 25 minutes last night. That's insane. He doesn't have Curry handing him 5 easy assists a game, but his ceiling is higher than Green's due to his athleticism and body-type. Stew is so valuable. His stat-line doesn't show it, but he led the defensive effort for that bench unit at the end of the 3rd and into the 4th when they got the 10 point lead with Cade on the bench. He just makes it so tough for dudes to score, even giants like Zubac struggle against him. I don't expect wins against Boston or Denver, we're still not championship contenders, but regardless this team has been a ton of fun to watch. 32 wins already after coming off of a 14 win season is a crazy story. This team is sitting in 6th - a guaranteed playoff spot right now - while being 3.5 games ahead of the 7th seed and only 1 game behind the 4th seed.

This is a great description.

This. The very reason you play Ausar is to take on the hardest defensive matchups. Some days the refs won't let you play physical, other days they will, and the latter will increase as your reputation for being a tough defender increases (see: Draymond). The more you play him against those guys the more he'll learn and the more the NBA will swallow the whistle. Both are very important long term to a guy who's primarily on the floor due to his defense.

Agreed, the injury really put a kink in my plans. If he doesn't come back this year (doubtful) to prove he's healthy, you might have to wait until next year to get the right value out of a trade. The injury also probably saved the Pistons from having to make an extension decision this summer, so they might simply have to kick the can down the road a bit on the trade and the decision both.

Even though I wanted Ivey more than almost any other player in that draft, I've been on the "find a good trade" for him bandwagon for over a year now. We have very few assets (thanks SVG and Weaver) and Ivey is a good, young asset who also isn't the best fit for the team I'd want to build. Add some draft picks to that (which will be available starting this offseason) and you might be able to score your second All-Star next to Cade. I'm not giving him away or accepting a bad return, but I'm probably actively looking for the right deal. My reasons are simply: - I see his ceiling as a great 6th man on a championship team. That's fine if you already have your two (or three) All-Stars, but we don't. We can't afford to pay all these rookies their money leaving us with no cap and no assets to bring in actual stars. We'll also be paying him #2 money, when he's not a #2 in my opinion. That comes with expectations of starting, which I'm not sure is the right answer because... - You have a 6'6" PG. Why give away one of the benefits of that by starting a smaller SG when you have the opportunity to have Cade be the smallest guy in a switchable lineup? Give me Ausar at the #2 and go find an All-Star SF or PF to pair with Cade. Then add a 3 and D guy at the other Forward spot. - Both the offense and defense have been better with Ausar in the starting lineup instead of Ivey. Take from that what you will, but it's simply a fact. What hasn't been good has been the offense when Cade goes to the bench due to the lack of other creators - again, this is just another case for Ivey as 6th man. Ivey has value, but I see him as a luxury we're not in a position to keep. We need that second All-Star and he's one of the few assets we can use to get one.