Betrayer

Good to hear day to day about Stew. That looked like it could have been bad.

Just came here to post this as well. Some good film breakdown of Cade's assists.

Thanks for posting this. Good stuff. I think the Pistons biggest role in trades will be as a facilitator for other teams rather than a buyer of a particular top player. I know fans don't wants to hear that, but they freed up cap space for a reason and in the offseason Trajan talked a lot about taking on contracts for assets.

Yep. Been saying this for 2 years now about Ausar. His most used play type last year was corner three because Monty never figured it out and put him in the worst possible scenario on offense. Hopefully JB will figure it out sooner. Not only should he be used as the screener, but let him be the DHO hub as well like the Warriors do with Draymond and the Pistons are trying to do with Duren (5 turnovers yesterday).

Yep. You know I've been on that bandwagon for a while now. His defense was outstanding (5 stocks, point of attack defense, weakside rim protection, rebounding), and he just knows how to make himself available on offense with cuts and smart plays even though he's a bit raw on that end. Blew a couple easy ones early otherwise his numbers would have been even better. That dunk was (almost) ridiculous. This game also shows why Beasley should be starting. Having that pure shooter who can do it off the catch and off of movement is just a huge benefit to Cade and the team. It's no coincidence that Cade got 18 Assists tonight with Beasley in there instead of Ivey. I'd hate to bench Ivey and reduce his trade value, but if they aren't planning to trade him then that's the answer. EIther way, the starting lineup needs some changes because it's been bad this season.

Sounds like the whole thing was just to free up a little extra cap space going into trade season. I'll judge this move when I see what they do with it.

I agree with a lot of what you said and I don't particularly like Lavine (although I'd still do the deal). However, I do need to call this comment out. Lavine's athleticism absolutely helps his scoring, but the dude is shooting 43% from three on 7.5 attempts per game. That's elite shooting regardless of his dunking ability. Of course, it's required that anytime you say something good about Lavine, you have to follow it with "when he plays."

Mister Glass

Is the choice only between signing Ivey long term versus bringing in Lavine? As of right now that's 2.5 years of a bad defender who's injury prone but is a perfect offensive fit next to Cade versus 6.5 years of a bad defender who's best role is probably 6th man but the team will treat him like a 2nd option? In that case, I'm leaning towards Lavine, as painful as it is for me to say. Lavine does one thing legitimately well, and that's score. Everyone loves what Beasley is doing this year, right? Well Lavine is shooting 43% from three compared to Beasley's 40%. He's money from outside and has an eFG% of 61 which is significantly better than Ivey's 50%. Cade will find him for threes all day and when Cade is getting tripled or sits down, Lavine will do what we were all hoping Ivey would do - take over the offensive load. He won't play defense, but let's be honest, trying hard doesn't make Ivey a good defender either. His health is the only reason I'd even have to think about this for more than a few minutes. It gives me pause, but you take the better player in the deal and run every time and that's clearly Lavine. We'd have to match 33M of that contract since we only have 10M open. THJ's and Ivey is only 24M. Maybe you could toss Reed in there. Now, if you're giving me the 3rd option of moving Ivey in a different deal, then I'm probably taking that instead - and no, not Ingram. I'd rather have Lavine than pay Ingram 50M/yr.

I agree about your draft night reaction and I had Ivey #2 on my board. I recall making the Jalen Brown comps as well, but in practice I'm seeing that his lack of height and defense will always keep him from hitting that type of ceiling. Malik Monk may be his actual outcome and Monk is getting about 20M/yr at 12% of the cap as their 4th best guy. Seeing how he fits with a team that is already inconsistent, poor defensively, and turnover prone doesn't make me feel good about this team's odds with him as the #2 or even #3 guy. At this stage of the rebuild, I'm not interested in paying 30+M/yr for the #4 guy. Also, investing that much in him sets up a situation where you almost have to treat him like the #2 guy whether you should or not. Like I've said before, I'd start Beasley over him today, but no way the org would do something like that if they just signed him to a 30+M dollar extension. Coming at it from the other direction, the team really doesn't have many tradeable assets yet at some point you have to find a way to get a second star. That means packaging some good players and Ivey is a player I'd consider in that mix. I'm not going to name specific target players, because it's so easy to make up and shoot down trades. We've all been around long enough to see the crazy deals that seem totally lopsided, so our opinions on "what's fair" don't matter to NBA GMs anyway. And as far as trading for draft picks, I wouldn't be doing that so we could draft the player ourselves 4 years from now. It'd be about collecting assets in the war-chest to bring in a star when the opportunity arises. As you said initially, I'm not selling low. However, I'm definitely keeping my eyes open for a deal if I'm Trajan.

Below average shooter, below average defender, too many turnovers. He'd fit right in, but no thanks.

Nah, I'll pass on that. December 15th is right around the corner, and every game is pushing me more and more towards the "trade him now" side of the fence as he trends downward from his hot start. Last night's game against Boston was a shinning example of this. I want a bigger 3 and D player at the other guard spot. Not someone who's going to be a small'ish average defender (at best), an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and a guy who turns it over too much for his role. He'll be a fine 6th man candidate someday for a team who already has their stars in place, but paying him to be the #2 player in this core isn't it. I was pretty excited on draft day, but this past offseason I said that they needed to trade at least one these 2022 guys before they become extension eligible. If anything, the clarity that we now have about these guys after seeing them on a semi-competent team has only served to solidify that viewpoint for me.

I mean that in the short term the Pistons are better when Beasley is on the court and in the long term I'd like to see a longer, more switchable lineup to take advantage of Cade's size...so where does that leave Ivey? Do you extend him for big money this offseason and lock in this duo as your 1A and 1B players going forward? As much as I like Ivey, I'm not sure I see that future working out. You also have to consider the fact that you probably can't afford to extend all of these high draft picks for the next three years. At some point you have to consolidate and waiting too long often means being stuck with a bad signing (Drummond), having to sell low (Duren), or just cutting the player when the value bottoms out (Killian). The other option is to use his success this season to package him in a trade to bring in that 1B star, move up in the draft to get that player, or acquire future picks that could be packaged for a 1B star later on. I'm not saying give up or sell low on Ivey, I'm just saying if I was GM I would have my eyes open for the right deal if it came along.

He's 35, so contenders only I'd assume.

This was a best case scenario. Now you can get far more for him in a trade than you would have after the Monty season. Sadly, the opposite happened with Duren and his value has diminished. I'm a fan of Ivey, but as of right now I'd start Beasley over him. And if I'm thinking about the future, then I want to reap the benefits of a 6'6" PG by having a long, switchable starting 5. Maybe you can run Ivey as your bench scorer in that scenario, but he's clearly not a PG and I don't want to give him a Jalen Green level extension this offseason for a Malik Monk role. Depends upon what trades are out there because I'm certainly not giving him away, but I'm not asking for an Ainge return either because I'm still not sure I like the composition of this core for getting into the top half of the East in the next couple years.

Interesting. That Reed contract could be a nice toss for a team that just wants to cut him after the trade, provided Detroit is getting a Center back in the deal.

Brandon Ingram is hurt? Wow. Never thought that would happen. /s Insane that some Piston's fans want to throw assets at this guy and then have to double down with a 50M/yr extension.

Are Reed and Moore guaranteed contracts?

Ivey had a really rough stretch in there before JB was forced to bring Cade back in to stop the bleeding. They just don't have anyone they can run the offense through when Cade's out. There's no 1B star. All of these vets are role players and Ivey is really hit or miss with the ball in his hands. Question is, do you play it out and hope for lottery luck to get that 1B player or do you consolidate some assets to trade for him? They'll probably make that decision in the next two months depending upon the standings.

Repeating a Drummond situation is my concern as well. I don't want to invest a lot of money in a Center that can't shoot or defend just because we waited too long to make a decision. It was a bad idea back then and it's an even worse idea in today's NBA.

So, you're saying there's a chance we could win on January 1st?

A lot of talk about starting lineup changes after JB's "starters need to be ready to start" comments from last game. I agree about the Ivey/Beasley switch. Here's the starting lineup I'd roll with: Cade Beasley Thompson Harris Stew Get your two best defenders in the starting lineup. Spacing is about the same as before, maybe better if Thompson's small sample size 33% is to be believed and if Stew gets back to taking a few more. Let Ausar be the DHO hub in the same way you used Duren and get him into that Draymond role. He's a better passer than Duren, has a higher IQ, and can actually attack out of that spot far more easily to keep defenses honest. That said, the org has to decide who they want to trade between Stew and Duren and start that person. The other is your bench Center when you bring in a legitimate starter, so you're not worried about hurting their value by benching them and you might as well get them accustomed to their forever role.

The NBA is such a one trick pony now. Chuck threes all game. If you're lucky you have a star who can play the boring foul game. Moving screens all day and defenders have no right to their space. Having just one way to win is boring. Rant aside, you can't win if you can't rotate on defense and contest shooters. It also doesn't help if you give the ball away so they have extra possessions. It's a simple as that. It's also becoming increasingly obvious that this team has 2 backups Centers and no starter. Choose your backup between Duren and Stew, and trade the other. I'm still listening to offers for Ivey as well. I was in favor of trading one or both of them during the offseason and that hasn't changed for me. In a bubble either of them are fine in the right role, but I'm not paying them big money this offseason to lock them up as my "core".

Agreed. He did have foot surgery, which I imagine has to impact your offseason routine since you probably can't walk or run for a long time. Still though, he just looks like kind of lost, like he's trying to figure out his role. For some reason he's hesitating on open threes and dribbling too much.

Exactly. Most NBA players who aren't on the Pistons are going to make wide open threes. It's a practice shot. I understand that Giannis is a problem with his ability to run directly through you and still get the call, but you at least have to guard the shooters. I saw so many missed rotations and defensive breakdowns, it would be impossible to count them all. This team put all their resources into offense over the summer and, other than Beasley, it hasn't gone well. They're a bottom third team on offense (bad shooting and turnovers). They've been top third on defense, but we really starting to see that come back to earth, no matter how much JB has them playing above their talent level on that end most nights. It's going to be a long December with Boston, New York, Boston, and Miami as the next 4 games. Then you've still got Utah, Phoenix, LA, Sac, Denver, and then Orlando on Jan 1. I could see this team going 2-8 during that stretch with a win over the Jazz at home and maybe stealing that Heat game. Hard to project too many more winnable games this month.