Betrayer

Were people expecting us to attract All-Stars in free agency? Trade our empty asset cupboards for them? We have to put out the dumpster fire before anyone is coming here. We also have to see what we have in the youth movement before locking in to players like Ingram for the next 5 years. I hate to be the positive one, but everything they've done so far tracks pretty well with what we should have expected after hearing Trajan's vision. These are all things he talked about at the presser: Raise the floor Build a better culture/organization Develop/evaluate the young players Get NBA players who will actually play Acquire future assets Improve shooting Improve the defense Reduce turnovers Tobias - Actual NBA starter and floor raiser. Durable. Low turnovers. Floor spacer. Good locker room guy. Short contract to remain flexible. THJ - NBA rotation player (25+ mpg game on a good team = better than 70% of the guys we rolled out last year). Pretty durable. Floor spacer. Low turnovers. Added draft capital. Short contract. Bickerstaff - Floor raiser. His teams in Memphis and Cleveland were near the top of the league in defense and low turnovers. Vinson - Development. Improve shooting. Improve the organization. The deals have to be there for them to absorb contracts, so who knows how much of that will happen. And they still have 25M in cap space, so there's plenty of money to do stupid things, but if they bring in someone like Gary Trent Jr and maybe absorb Capella, they've really raised the floor, easily double the win total, and changed the narrative around the team while developing youth without being locked in long term. You also still have a shot at a good pick in 2025 as well. If Cade takes an SGA or Haliburton leap and another youngster pans out, you can start making bigger swings. You might even have a free agent look at you. If not, then you aren't committed long term and you can keep drafting. We can't forget that although we may have endured 15+ years of Piston's trash basketball, Trajan hasn't. I'm sure he expects to come in here and be given a few years to build it the way he sees fit without "skipping steps".

Are there bad reports about his character or something? He's essentially a 5 years younger version of KCP. Can't imagine why a contender wouldn't want a guy like that.

Who's the fifth best prospect?

Ugh. Bad at rotations, zero offensive creativity, doesn’t make in-game adjustments, but he’s a strong locker room guy and good with young players. Sound familiar? Welcome to the team, Dwane Casey. Get ready for Ausar standing in the corner and Cade running endless pick and rolls again.

This is the first guy Langdon has moved, so I don't see how we can come to the conclusion that it was because he was a "Weaver guy". By that logic, he's got about 9 more guys to move. However, I have heard some comments on Pistons podcasts about Grimes not wanting to be here, so maybe that's part of it. He certainly didn't look like he wanted to play for us last year. I don't blame him, just saying that might be part of why they felt they needed to move him.

Curious what the "and more" is because right now I'm just laughing at how wonky the NBA can be sometimes. Just goes to show you that you have no idea what you're players are worth and what people are willing to give up (or not). Murray and Bridges are both essentially fringe All-Star players. Murray has made 1 All-Star game, Bridges none. They both have 1 All-Defensive team appearance. Both guys are 27 years old. Last year's numbers: Bridges: 19.6 PPG, 3.6 AST, 4.5 REB, 1 STL on 44/37/81 splits Murray: 22.7 PPG, 6.4 AST, 5.3 REB, 1.4 STL on 46/36/79 splits Arguably Murray was better, even at rebounding. Sure, you're going to pay more for a wing because that's the most coveted position in the NBA, but NYK gave up 5 unprotected first, a pick swap, and a second while NO gave up just 2 picks and a trash player.

3 second rounders, including Toronto's which will likely be in the 30s in a stacked draft is not a "negative asset". And, as was mentioned by Buddha, we've already seen the Pistons use two 2nd to get a 1st. So, if you do the math you could argue they got a late 1st and a second out of the deal. I understand arguing that they could've gotten a little more based upon the Reggie Jackson trade, but honestly THJ is worth more than the desiccated corpse of Reggie Jackson. Pistons fans are out here acting like Grimes is something special. Vinson only has so much time. Maybe he can shoot, maybe not. Either way, he's struggled to stay on the court enough in his career to prove it. Wound up in the doghouse in NY and we also have no idea if he even wanted to be here which does play a part in building a good locker room. In the end, this move is a bit of a "who cares". They traded the 9th guy on the bench for another 9th guy on the bench and a little cap space and got 3 second round picks out of the deal.

So, he's Alec Burks.

Definitely feels like they could have demanded more, however the 2025 pick is from Toronto which should be a lot better than the 2025 Denver pick that Charlotte got. Either way, the Pistons have a problem. They had 9 young guys in need of time and development and yet they need to bring in vets to surround these guys and create a real roster. Something has to give. You can't go into the season with Cade, Ivey, Duren, Ausar, Stew, Holland, Grimes, Sasser, and Klintman. Even if Klintman is in the G-League, that's still 8 guys out of a 9 man rotation. Add Tek and there's your 9. It's also basically the same team that won 14 games last year and you have little room for some new vets. They were also up against paying Grimes at the end of the year or just losing him for nothing since he probably wasn't getting much court time to show out. I'm actually expecting a little more house-cleaning before this is all over. Maybe Sasser and probably one of Ivey or Duren (maybe both) need to get moved. It's possible they wait until closer to the deadline to evaluate, but I just can't see them going through the whole year with all of these same, ill fitting players heading into extension eligibility for them and a good draft where they'll likely have a lottery pick for Trajan to bring in more of the guys he desires.

Pistons also signed Daniss Jenkins to a two-way deal. 6'3" gritty guard with some skills on both sides of the ball. Here's a scouting report someone posted on Reddit: https://edemirnba.substack.com/p/daniss-jenkins-scouting-report

I feel like we've been talking about THJ becoming a Piston in various deals for 3 years now.

There are definitely more cases of guys becoming good shooters than there are of guys suddenly becoming great athletes. We also just hired the guy who's considered to be one of the best (if not the best) shot doctor in the league. He's been credited with greatly improving a number of players in New Orleans (Lonzo Ball, Herb Jones, Jose Alvardao, Naji Marshall, Brandon Ingram, etc). Herb Jones went from 28% to 37%. Lonzo jumped up 5% and then another 5% the following year after he left for Chicago. Alvarado has gone from 29% to 37%. Marshall jumped up to nearly 39% this year from about a 30% average before that. There are many others and I'm sure most of us could probably name 3-5 off the top of our heads easy. Jaylen Brown shot 29% in college and is around 35% now. Anthony Edwards was 29% as well in college. Even old guys like Demar Derozan and Brook Lopez have learned to shoot. Sure, for every one of those guys there are 10 Hamidou Diallo's who never get it, but the possibility is there. And when/if those guys hit, they really hit because they already have the other stuff to make them elite. On the other hand, there are zero Luke Kennards who suddenly become Donovan Mitchell level athletes. Some things like size, length, athleticism you just can't teach.

Yeah, everyone was saying it was a "down year". Although scouting was pretty bad with Covid. Like most down years though, when you look back you find a lot of hits. Hopefully that happens this year as well and Holland is one of those sleepers.

Weaver's there now. He did the same thing in 2020, another draft that was touted as "very bad" going into draft day.

Sorry, the 61% was a mis-read on my part. It was a comparison of Green and Holland. Holland's was 56.5% (G-League splits their stats, so you have to look at Regular season and Showcase). I knew Vecenie was lower on Holland than others I've seen. However, it is interesting to see Sam call out his defensive anticipation when I just watched two Holland breakdown videos saying the exact opposite, especially in regards to his steals. Seems like we're all learning about this player as we go. I would much rather have moved down and taken a similar player (or Carter) while gaining assets. I had Holland higher than Matas, but not this high. But at the same time I didn't want a role player (Knecht), because that's a waste of a draft pick on a 14 win team. In the end, I can't be mad at the pick, it's a swing for the fences on a high upside guy. The thing I think people need to wrap their head around is that we shouldn't be thinking of this draft pick in terms of how he fits into the starting lineup in October and how many wins he gets us in 2024-25. That was the Weaver way. Instead, he should be playing about 10 minutes per game in a developmental role. Then you go out and get some vets for the short term.

This doesn't quite match what I'm seeing in draft breakdowns of Holland. They had him essentially playing PG with a ton of usage, so his turnovers were very bad to start the season - that's not his NBA role. His ability to slash and his moves getting to the basket are mostly what I'm seeing people praise, especially compared to Ausar who's handle is really bad. He's a much better offensive player than Ausar and averaged about 20ppg with a 61.3 TS%. Got to the line a ton (top 10 in the G-League). Also seeing that he was a pretty good defender who gambled a bit too much, but had plenty of lock-down moments, steals, and blocks. Not sure I've heard anyone say he's "really bad" in that regard. Clearly Ausar has the potential to be an elite defender and I'm not trying to say Holland is a world beater at all, but I think you might be underselling him a bit here.

JJ just selected himself to the Lakers (Knecht).

I’m glad they didn’t let Carter fall to the Heat.

He’s probably thinking that a draft pick doesn’t have to be a year one starter. Swing for the fences and let the kid develop over a couple years. You can’t teach athleticism, but you can teach shooting (sometimes). In the meantime, actually make trades and get free agent vets to help your team for the short term while the kids develop - something that Weaver never did. If Holland is starting, something went wrong (again). I still think there might have been a better move here with a trade down, but I do understand the logic behind taking a swing in the draft for a team that really needs to find potential All-Stars.

He’s a Forward, but your point still stands.

Woj just said that Memphis was working the phones non-stop to try to get Clingan until he was drafted by Portland at 7 and they pivoted to Edey. Maybe they didn’t offer enough, but clearly the interest was there.

Looks like Chicago didn’t have to move up to get Matas after all. Let’s see if they take him.

Wow Memphis wanted Clingan so bad they took Eddy this high!!!