Betrayer

I was at this game so I wasn't happy to hear we weren't fielding a NBA team. Would've been nice to at least see Ivey. Wiseman and Bagley both looked solid though. Of course, Livers has played more than 3 games now, so he's out with an injury again. Really wish that kid could stay on the court, but he could be a nice role player in the league. Ball breaking his ankle is bad news, but I still think it's highly unlikely we pass CHA in the standings even though they struggled against our G-League team once Ball went out. Good news is that SAN won a game. They also play HOU back to back this weekend, so somebody has to win those games. We have 1 game remaining against HOU, which could be a big one. That said, I'm not sure it matters where we fall if we don't land a top 3 seed. Picks 4-8 feels pretty tight talent-wise. So, as long as we're bottom 3 to land those top odds, that's all I'm worried about now.

Really good show from the Lowe Post with Givony as a special guest. Talking about the 4 tanking teams (Spurs, Pistons, Rockets, Hornets) and which one you'd want if you could choose based upon current situation. Detroit was picked #1 by Lowe and #2 (after the Spurs) by Givony. It's a great listen.

(EDIT: This should've been in the Toronto game thread) Yep, I watched it. I watch them all. Last couple of games, I have to say that the Pistons defense has looked a little better. Either the lack of Bey or maybe the message that Bey got traded because he wasn't playing defense, or maybe just guys having more energy after the All-Star break rest, but they look a little more engaged and connected on that end of the court. Let's see if it continues. Livers is showing why he's a better fit in that 3 and D role than Bey. Marvin put up some Drummond numbers. You can tell he knows his job is at risk. If Wiseman lights a fire under him, great. Wiseman was solid as well. Way too many fouls, but he also had 10 rebounds in that time period. I'm not seeing All-Star, but he could be a really good backup big. Ivey struggled with his shot after shooting lights out last game, but some of those passes were really nice. 5 assists in the first quarter and 10 for the game. He continues to show development in that aspect of his game. They really need to move Killian to bench PG and start Burks. Get Killian playing his future role (if he has one) and put the spacing around Ivey. Plus, I don't want to see CoJo anymore and that would solve it.

I didn't get it then and it makes even less sense now. Plus, he was signed after we had already drafted Duren and picked up Noel in the trade. We still had Olynyk too. Sure, in the grand scheme, a 12M/yr contract isn't going to kill you and could be nice salary filler in a bigger trade, but that doesn't make it a good move. That says less about Bagley and more about the poor roster construction beforehand. Going from Stew at Center to any warm body that can catch a lob and finish in the paint was going to help Cade who was top ten in the league in getting double-teamed.

I'm probably the only one still watching all these games, but at least it was a close loss this time which kept it exciting. Ivey's game has been developing before our eyes. You can see things clicking for him and he's begun to develop a mid-range game as well as making reads and passes that he definitely wasn't making in the first couple months of the season. His shot efficiency is improving as well, especially on catch and shoot threes. I think the stat I heard was 87th percentile on those, which bodes well for playing alongside Cade next year. Casey is still a heck of a tank commander. Tie game, you need 1 stop to send it to OT. What's your lineup? Bojan and Burks, with Stew at Center? Wow. Please get this clown out of here this offseason. Wiseman was seriously struggling in the first half, but looked pretty good in the second half and wound up with 10 rebounds. Also, his defense is not nearly as bad as reports indicated. He's no lock-down defender, but he's not Marvin Bagley bad either.

Better version of Keegan Murray?

Wiseman looked solid in his first game. Outside of some "getting acclimated" mistakes, I saw some positive signs. I'm definitely curious to see how he develops. I like the activity and he seems to have a nice touch on offense. Rebounding instincts didn't look great, but with his size he just gets some anyway. I wouldn't say his shot block timing was great either, but again his sheer size deterred a bunch of drives and caused at least one turnover from the Celtics that I saw. Nice mobility and athleticism for his size as well. Can we move Killian back to the bench? I don't like the starting lineup pairing with Ivey who operates better with the spacing and vet savvy that Burks provides. Then Killian can just play bench PG where he's at least a little valuable rather than shooting guard where he's absolute trash. If he's going to remain on this team, it's as a bench PG anyway, so get him used to that role. The bonus is that I wouldn't have to watch CoJo anymore.

That's my hope for how he's used. I'm done with Stew at Center. I want 30 minutes of Duren starting at Center and all the backup minutes to Wiseman. But I've heard reports about the organization wanting to start him (next to Duren). Not sure I buy those reports and maybe it was taken out of context about something they "might" do when we play a team like the Cavs. Still, I'm curious to see what this coaching staff does.

Completely agree with both of your points on the assets given up for those picks and Weaver's asset management in general. My point was simply that his drafting itself has been solid - no GM hits on every pick and he's done better than average on most of his picks. I even forgot to mention Livers at pick 42 who looks like he could be a good Role Player in the league when 75% of picks at that spot are garbage or never even play a game. Weaver certainly has faults that are starting to add up, but I don't think his drafting is one of them.

Actually, it's not as bad as you'd think. It's easy to look in hindsight and find a guy or two picked later that broke out. That happens in every draft. But we're talking about picks 7, 16, and 19. Based upon data from 82games.com, here's what you can expect from those picks... (https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm) Pick 7: 30% Star, 40% Solid, 25% Role Player, 5% Deep Bench --Killian looks like he'll fall in as a Role Player, but some believe he still has a chance to be a Solid NBA backup. Either way, I'd call it below average for this draft spot. Of all his draft picks, this was the lowest return vs average. Pick 16: 5% Star, 25% Solid, 30% Role Player, 25% Deep Bench, 15% Bust --Stewart is looking like he'll be in the role player section, which is slightly above average for this draft spot. Pick 19: 5% Star, 15% Solid, 20% Role Player, 50% Deep Bench, 10% Bust --Bey is currently in the Role Player section, which is really good for this draft spot. Although he could move into the Solid spot with the right coaching/system. Either way, this is well above average for that spot in the draft where you have a 60% chance to get a deep bench or bust. So, Weaver didn't hit it out of the park with these picks, but overall he was probably slightly above average or at least on the averages when you add it all up. When you factor in that everyone knew this was a historically weak draft, he did fine. Not great, but fine. Then, in 2021 Cade was clearly the pick that everyone was taking at #1, so nothing to talk about there. I guess you could credit him for not overthinking it. In 2022, he took Ivey and got one of the steals of the draft in Duren at pick 13. Obviously we can't fully judge these picks for a couple more years, but it's looking pretty good so far. Overall, I think his drafting has been very good. My concerns are actually more around roster composition (identity/vision) and some of his asset management (such as the Plumlee debacle).

Curious to see if Wiseman plays and if so, how they utilize him.

I completely agree that we're in the Talent Accumulation phase. In fact, I think the idea of trying to win before you land a superstar or two All-Stars to build around is setting yourself up for years of mediocrity. Which is why I've said that his seat is getting warm with "the fans", but I don't believe it's anywhere near warm with the owner. In fact, he just got an extension. Personally, the issue I'm having is: They've said over and over that they want a defensive minded team that can compete for a playoff spot next year and I can't see the vision for the team he's building or how he expects to accomplish that objective with it. Overall, I still think he's been a net positive because I like his aggression in the teardown and some of the gambles he's made - which you have to do if you want to find some diamonds in the rough in Detroit. After all, we aren't attracting guys that are already All-Stars in Detroit. But at the same time I'm not seeing how what he's doing translates to what he and the organization are saying they're trying to do. I also worry that the "playoff" talk is being pushed down from Gores, which could spell disaster with all the money we have this offseason.

You also saw it in my post two spots up from your post 😄

I was on vacation, but I've definitely got some thoughts on this whole thing... Bey: I'm fine with the Pistons moving him. I've been getting more and more frustrated with his play lately as many of you have seen me comment. Selfish, inefficient, a shooter who can't shoot, a wing who can't defend, and his numbers have regressed every year. As a rookie we all thought he'd be a 3 and D role player that would develop into a Jae Crowder or (hopefully) Middleton type. Turns out he wanted to be way more than that to the detriment of all those around him. Something I like to call "Drummond Disease" or "DD" for short, but better know as a lack of self awareness. I said previously that this team was going to need to move players to make space for draft picks and free agents that will help them compete because player development alone wasn't going to cut it. Cade/Ivey/Duren are where we're investing our future, and that only leaves the wing where they can make improvements. So, this was inevitable. Wiseman: I'm curious to see Wiseman in a pick and roll system. He has a lot of tools, but he's played less minutes than Duren so far in his career, 1/3rd of the minutes that Killian has played, and is just 21 (to Saddiq's 23). There's still room for growth and he should get plenty of opportunity here. I also don't agree with those saying we don't need a Center. Noel obviously isn't getting played and may be bought out. Bagley is (always) hurt. So, all you have is Stew backing up Duren. Have you been watching the Stew at Center travesty this season? He's too small on defense and has bad hands in the paint on offense. Your only hope is that he figures that 3 point shot out and can become a bench PF and situational Center like Grant Williams. That Cleveland game was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for Weaver, and I can't blame him for that - we looked like a middle school team playing against a college team. We absolutely need a backup Center and if they can get that out of Wiseman, then I'm happy with the return. At the end of the day, you're swapping a bench Wing for a bench Center. Let's not inflate the value of a wing who can't play defense or shoot and couldn't keep his starting spot on one of the worst teams in the league. All I need Wiseman to become is a good bench Center and he'll have more value - or at least less negative value - than Bey at the wing. Weaver: However, I do agree that Weaver's seat is getting much warmer with the fans. The vision and identity of the team he's building is questionable at best. I think fans are ok with being bad during a rebuild, but we're all struggling to see what he's building towards. He says he wants defense but he's collected a team full of bad defenders. This is going to be a big offseason for him, especially if he doesn't get bailed out by landing the #1 or #2 pick. And nobody wants to see him spend that 50M+ on the equivalent of Charlie V, Ben Gordon, or Josh Smith in this bad free agent market. It's definitely going to be interesting.

More reports coming out that Bojan is untouchable. This is either next level chess, or they haven't received the offers they wanted and now the organization is covering their tracks to make it look good. No other explanation makes sense. You don't keep a 34 year old who's having the best offensive season of his life but can't defend his way out of paper bag when you're in the Piston's situation...unless you can't get enough solid assets in return. Regardless, if true, then you've got to move Bey. You can't go into next season with the worst defensive wing rotation in the NBA and expect to "compete" for anything but a lotto spot. They're locked into the development of their Guards and Center, so the 3-4 is the only place they have to make a significant upgrade and that means making space for that upgrade while collecting assets. If you come back with the same team (+Cade and a rookie) expecting to compete through development alone you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Duren and Ivey made the Rising Star challenge for All-Star weekend. Can we get back to back Rising Stars MVPs?

Yes, the wing in general needs work. It's a 2-way wing league and we don't have those. Bogie is a nice scorer (if he stays), but he gives up as much as he gets on the other end as one of the worst defenders in the league. If he's staying you're going to need a superstar defender at the other Forward position, along with Duren continuing to make good strides as a defender, and these guards finding a way to show some pride on defense. You just can't have 4 bad defenders out there at once.

That was the most selfish play I've ever seen on a basketball court. Nope, not from Luka, who plays a brand of basketball that seems to get more and more like Harden every day. I'm talking about Bey. Down 2 with the chance to tie it and you can't make the most obvious dump off pass in the history of basketball to Duren who's standing under the rim? Instead you go up with an awkward, contested off-hand shot and then Dallas goes the other way and scores. Game over. Also, we need to talk about how Stew at Center just doesn't work - even off the bench. His only chance in this league is to play primarily at PF. Too small, can't jump, can't set a screen, can't catch the ball in the paint, terrible finisher in the paint. Don't tell me Noel can't play 13 minutes a game behind Duren at backup Center so we can give the Stew/Duren lineup a legitimate chance for 20 games to see where that goes. Sounds weird to say it, but this team missed Hami's brand of chaos last night.

All records going forward need an asterisk to indicate that they were earned in the NDE (No Defense Era) of basketball.

Reports coming out that the Pistons are probably going to keep Bojan: https://pistonpowered.com/2023/01/30/detroit-pistons-rumors-bojan-bogdanovic/ Could just be trying to drive the price up, but these are Bogie's words, so that seems unlikely.

But are they on par with Houston lacking their 3 best players? That's the real question here 😄

Most perplexing thing about this game is Casey changing the lineup "to compete." Then we come out and lose to the worst team in the league without their 3 best players on the court. Laughable. Maybe bench the coach? First, what are we competing for with the second worst record in the league? Shouldn't this be a development year? If it wasn't, it certainly is by now. Second, how is starting Bey and Bogey at the forward positions considered competing anyway? That's literally the worst defensive forward combination in the entire league by a wide margin. Third, what happened to the Stew+Duren lineup we were supposed to run out this year? Now Casey has Stew at Center fulltime and it just even more glaring how out of position he is at Center after seeing Duren in there. He was starting to show promise in growing into the Grant Williams-type PF role. Don't tell me it's because they don't have another Center - they do. Also, there's a thing called staggering lineups. Stew played only 21 minutes. Duren played only 27. These guys are 21 and 19 years old. Even if you refuse to play Noel, there's no reason those two can't play 30+ minutes and share the court more. Fourth, back to Casey's inability to stagger a lineup. Killian's coming off the bench again even though you just got his confidence up and he was seemingly turning a corner over the past couple of months. Now he's off the bench only getting 25 minutes while Burks and Bogey get 30+? Go check his numbers in games where he plays over 30 mpg - 15.7 ppg, 8.1 ast, 4 reb, 45% fg, 36% 3pt, 54 TS. Not bad for a guy most of us had given up on at the start of the year. If Casey is bad at lineups, bad at offensive schemes, bad at defensive schemes, bad at in-game strategy, then why is he the guy? Development? Take a look at these young guys not even getting 30 mpg, trying to function in broken offensive and defensive systems, clearly tuning out the coach, regressing on both ends of the court, and now getting benched for questionable reasons - tell me how he's developing players again? Tell me how he's not instilling a culture here that's hurting development? Show me the games where they're outhustling the other teams on both ends even though they're losing. Show me a Casey team that has overperformed expectations rather than under-performed them.

Young guys played well and we got the win. Definitely a fun watch. Plus, I love beating the Nets.

That was impressive, but you gotta be willing to take the poster every now and then if you're going to be a defender/shot-blocker.

Yep, it was painful. Killian was really bad, nobody could hit a 3, and the defense was the usual 30pt per quarter open lane to the bucket. Also, Casey decided to start Stew at Center again even though Duren was back (hopefully it was just a minutes restriction), and it looked really bad (again). Casey also loves to start both Bogie and Bey in that lineup, which we all know is a train wreck defensively. On a positive note, Hami has been playing really well since Bagley's been out and they've been using him as a PF (mostly). He's undersized for it, but the playstyle suits his skillset way better and he's been able to be effective in the dunker spot, setting screens, cutting, and beating his man down the court as opposed to standing at the 3pt line where we all know he can't shoot. Took 2 years and multiple injuries for Casey to be forced into figuring out what we all knew from day 1 about Hami's playstyle.