Betrayer

I just want to see improvement from Cade, Killian, and a bounce back game from Bey. Still fine with losses as long as I can see sparks of the future. CoJo and Kelly playing extended 4th quarter minutes to secure a win means nothing to me.

Right, people will point to Trae or Luka. But let's be honest, Trae has explosive speed even though he's not an above the rim athlete. He can get by his man and disrupt an offense or hit the shot if you back off. Not sure I see Cade having that kind of first step. That leaves Luka, which is obviously what everyone is hoping for. But part of what makes Luka so intriguing is the fact that he's the extremely rare player that is dominant despite the lack of athleticism, which bucks the norm (Lebron, KD, Davis, Wade, Jordan, Kobe, Kawhi, on and on). So, we're not only hoping for Cade to be a superstar, but to do so in a way that is very rarely achieved. Problem is, you can't teach athleticism like you can teach shooting, so he really has limited ways to become a superstar. Can he become a generational shot maker like Curry? A multi-faceted talent like Luka? Those are your options. And that's why shooting like last night scares the fan base so much because everything is riding on that aspect of his game.

And yet Hayes has actually been showing sign of life. My concern with Cade is the same as it’s always been - athleticism. You have to be a truly great shooter to overcome the lack of it. So hopefully 2-14 is an anomaly.

It was definitely disappointing not to see Cade in there. At least there could have been something to look forward to in that blowout. It's early and we have a tough schedule to start, but does the team actually look less competent than last year? weird to say that about a 20 win team, but this offense is horrid. Saying they can't hit shots is too simple - the fact is that they aren't even getting good looks most of the time. One screen and then hero ball over and over. No off ball movement or screening, nobody with explosiveness to penetrate and draw in the defense, and so there's a lot of contested shots as a result. Not sure Cade fixes that.

Bey continues to impress and it was good to see Frank find his shot again. Killian playing a little better the last couple of games, but still a long way from competent. Defense was solid throughout most of the game as well, but the offense is absolutely horrid. Most fun part of the game was watching Dre do Dre things over and over: 2 points, 4 rebounds, 4 turnovers, 6 fouls in 14 minutes of play. First real chance for a win is this Saturday against Orlando, but it's probably a better idea to lose for the sake of those lottery tie-breakers.

I'm hot and cold on Weaver at this point. Certainly I'd like more draft picks and I'd also like to see him handle his assets a little better. Then again, I love the fact that he had the guts to change over the entire team in a year and truly commit to the rebuild with some very solid moves along the way. In the end, we need to wait and see.

Best part of it is who those bad teams are beating. Cavs beat the Clippers and OKC beat the Lakers after LA had a big lead.

I like the OKC method. Lots and lots of draft picks. More draft picks means more potential to land a franchise altering star. When you have that star, the "restore" can actually start as you rebuild around him.

Rough start, but I think we all expected that. The Good Bey: He's really showing that he's a lot more than a 3 and D guy. I like what I'm seeing from him so far. He's been hitting the glass too, which this team needs. Yeah, his 3PT% is off so far, but I'm certain that will be fine. Stewart: Averaging nearly a double-double along with 1.3 blocks. I like how he's progressing. Still not sure if his ceiling is high enough to be an all-star, but he looks like he'll at least be a solid player in the league. The Bad Frank Jackson: I have no idea what happened to Frank, but hopefully it's just a little slump. He looks lost out there and simply can't find the bucket. Hami: He's got a long way to go. Struggling to see what aspect of his game improved in the offseason. His shot still looks really bad and he looks lost in the offense. The Ugly Casey: He's a development coach, so that's fine for now. But when this team is ready to take the next step he needs to go. His 2 unit lineup is just lazy - is he playing a video game? The offense is just terrible. Much like in Toronto, it's based on hero ball, but this team has no heroes. Hayes: I'm trying to find an NBA player here, but not seeing one. I'm still struggling to see what skill is his "thing". Defense is solid, but he doesn't appear to dribble, pass, shoot, drive, or do anything else at a high level. I keep waiting to see flashes of something that can give me hope for development. Corey Joseph: He's hot garbage. 16% shooting, 12% from three. Mostly looks for his own offense rather than assists. Maybe Saben Lee is hot garbage too, but there's a chance he's not. We already know what Corey Joseph is, so why bother playing him, especially when Lee has shown some progress in Summer League and Preseason?

Weaver saying that Cade is likely out until after the first road trip. So, that would put his debut at the Orlando game on the 30th.

I was happy to see both Nets and Lakers lose last night. So tired of those types of teams.

Ask Reggie Jackson.

It's mind-boggling to me, but hey, anything that reduces the Nets chances is fine with me. I have no problem with that team imploding. My only question is, how long before Harden demands a trade if it starts to fall apart?

Last night's game: The Good: Saben Lee - Had a nice game, got into the paint very well, went 4/4 from downtown, and played solid defense. If he can get consistent from beyond the arc, he could be pretty valuable as a backup. Beef Stew - Much better showing than the last couple games. Maybe it helped that Mitchell Robinson and Noel were both out tonight, but Stew was efficient and grabbed 8 rebounds in his 23 minutes. Jamorko Pickett - Played well in short minutes and was one of the lone bright spots of the bench unit. I felt he outplayed Lyles who most people seem to think will be a regular in the rotation at this point. Pickett was far more efficient. The Bad: Cory Joseph - Although he will occasionally make a nice play for someone else, he's usually just pounding the air out of the ball hunting for his own layups. Too many times I was stuck screaming for him to pass it to the wide open pick setter after both defenders went to Cory in the paint - nope, he just jacked up a bad shot instead. He led the group that Casey ran for way too long in the 3rd and 4th quarter that let the game flip on its head's to a Knicks victory. Olynyk - Another less than average game for Kelly. He does some nice basketball IQ things out there on the court, but the shooting has to be there otherwise he's just Plumlee with less height, paint defense, and rebounding on a team that needs more height, paint defense, and rebounding. Diallo - Hami continues to disappoint. I know a lot of people are high on him because of his potential (i.e., he can jump high), but his shot is broken and that was part of the problem with the second unit that lost this game - they looked lost on offense. When the team is healthy, who's the odd man out of Casey's second unit? Cory, Josh, Frank, Hami, Lyles, Kelly...that's six people. My vote would be Hami or Lyles at this point. Casey - Is it too early for me to complain about rotations? Well, I'm going to anyway because it's not about this game in particular, it's about Casey's strategy overall. His easy-button method of running 2 distinct units by substituting 5 starters for 5 bench players is terrible. C'mon man, use some better strategy than that. I don't want to hear that these players can't play with each other unless they're constantly in the same 5-man unit. This is the NBA, they're better than that and maybe you should vary it up in practice so that's not an issue. The Ugly Injuries - Cade, Killian, Bey all out with injury. Starting to wonder if Cade will even start the season.

How many do you think they'll have? Just looked at the Vegas line and it's 24.5, so my guess isn't far off from theirs either. Sure, they have more potential than last year with Cade on the team, but I struggle to name more than a handful of teams I'd expect them to beat. East: ORL, CLE, maybe TOR, maybe WAS West: HOU, OKC, maybe SAC, maybe MIN Even if they won every single one of those games, that's only 23 wins. You could throw in a couple more teams that they'll split the season series with (let's say SAS and CHA) and it would be exactly the Vegas line of 24.5 (we play CHA 3 times). In reality they'll lose some of those games and win some others they shouldn't, but the math should equal out. Outside of some unexpected talent growth explosion, this is not a 30 win team, and certainly not the 33+ it's going to take to get into the play-in tournament. I think 23-28 is the range, which is why I'm predicting 25. That's all ok though. I'm expecting a bad team as long as they're growing, developing talent, and I don't have to watch Joseph and Olynyk play the entire 4th quarter of every game like Casey is trying to save his job or something.

Rough game. Zero defense and when they tried they fouled instead. Pistons just looked outclassed in every way and Memphis looked more skilled and more athletic in every way. Shot making, rebounding, defense, finishing, you name it, Memphis did it better. Turnovers were out of control because they couldn't handle the defensive pressure. Killian - I really don't see anything here. Looked the same as always. Broken shot (2-9) and no real contribution elsewhere. Bey - Just couldn't get anything going, mostly because he couldn't get open against the Memphis D. Went out with an injury after the first half - didn't see anything other than one hard fall but he played plenty after that. Stewart - He was efficient, had some nice blocks, and grabbed a few boards so he played ok, but the team is going to struggle without an additional rebounder next to him (Grant doesn't rebound). He's not skilled enough to move to the 4 alongside another big, so this will continue to be an issue. Frank Jackson - Had a poor shooting night, as did most of the team, but he was one of the few bright spots in the second half with some aggression and some nice plays. Olynyk - 5 Turnovers and his shot was off. He couldn't find space to get open looks (nobody could) because Memphis was faster and more athletic. Joseph - Played well when he looked to get his own layups in an Ish Smith kind of way. Josh Jackson - One of the bright spots. Had an efficient game with very few turnovers. Diallo - Really had a subpar performance until garbage time in the 4th when he started to show more aggression and ball hog a bit. The rest of the game was pretty rough for him and he had 5 turnovers as well. I think his 3pt shooting last year was a bit of an anomaly. Shot doesn't look smooth at all and he's reluctant to shoot it. Probably a bit of a wake up call for those who think this team will be in the play-in tournament. Looking at the early schedule, I'm seeing probably 2 wins in their first 10 games and 4 or 5 in their first 20. Cade could change some things, but he's still a rookie and he's not a great athlete either, which was part of the problem last night (and will be on a nightly basis). I don't know if this is even a 25 win team. They certainly aren't going to win a lot of road games with this much youth. Good news is, that will mean another high lotto pick.

I'll agree that the Nets have the top spot in my most hated list - KD takes that spot by himself before we even get into the ball of crazy that is Kyrie and playstyle of Harden - but it's a close call for me when you put it up against the Lakers franchise and all the players like Melo, Howard, and Rondo that are hanging onto Lebron.

I've heard the tales of Killian in practice, but it's practice against Piston backups and Cade probably wasn't playing either because of the ankle. So, I'll have to wait until I see it on the court in an NBA game. Still though, what matters to me is his jumpshot and defense since I imagine that Cade and Grant will have the ball A LOT. I like what I've seen of him defensively so far in his young career, but not so much on the jumpshot. As for the court, I agree, the paint should be painted. I mean, it's in the name and everything.

I don't know which team I want to see fail more, the Lakers or the Nets. If they meet in the Finals it may be the first time in 20+ years I don't watch.

Disappointing that Cade isn't playing tonight, but I get it. Guess we'll have to wait another week or two to see the new guy in action. Wonder if he's been held out of practice these past couple weeks as well. Bad timing for a rookie.

Awesome, thanks for the explanation. Just glad to see that my community of online sports friends have found a new home where we can rant and rave about the Pistons (and other Detroit teams). Good to see some familiar faces popping up.

I'm excited for some NBA ball, as usual. Definitely want to watch the youngsters grow, but I agree that they will be pretty bad. It's easy to get excited, but when you look at the other teams in the league and thing objectively about it, 25-30 wins is about right. That's ok, Casey said as much during preseason. They're looking to grow with this core for one more year and then make some big noise in free agency next year to begin the real push. (side note: Is this the new forum for us MotownSports folks who've been on that forum for a decade? What happened to the other one? I'm old and confused, lol)