Betrayer

Most of what I'm hearing the past couple of weeks has Chet and Jabari in tier 1, Ivey and Paulo in Tier 2, and then Tier 3 comes after that. Paulo's stock has been steadily dropping - people are seeing a high floor but a low ceiling (Julius Randle comparisons). NBADraftNet even has Ivey at #2, right after Smith, and Banchero at #4 after AJ Griffin. Here, take a look at the write up on Ivey and tell me you wouldn't drool over that: https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaden-ivey/ As far as fit, yes, I think Ivey would be a great fit next to Cade. His main issue is that he's not a primary ballhandler so you don't want to try to shove him into a true PG position - no problem, that's Cade's strength. Ivey has also shown that he's a good shooter off the ball from three and obviously he's a dynamic slasher and athlete on the break or on drives to the rim. He's also a good defender with tremendous defensive upside due to his strength and athleticism. A team with just one star is going to sit in NBA purgatory. You need a second creator/scorer if you're going to make any noise, so we can't be over-protective of Cade's ball dominance. To me, getting Ivey would be like Paul + Booker or Tatum + Brown or even Conley + Mitchell. Then, if we had a real coach who doesn't sub out the entire starter unit, we could always have one of them in the game. I think Ivey may have a slightly lower floor than some of the bigs, but he has a much higher ceiling and could be a Donovan Mitchell type of player if he develops. I just don't see any of these bigs becoming an Embiid, Jokic, or Davis. Unless you're getting an MVP type of big man like that, In today's NBA, the difference between all the other big men is negligible and many of them (even guys like Gobert and Ayton) got benched for long stretches in last year's playoffs because they couldn't match up with spread offenses in the playoffs. I'd rather continue to develop Bagley and get another big man in free agency for now. Plus, the jury is still out on the Grant situation, so that could be another way to get a big man or a draft pick.

I've been having a blast watching these recent games and I was in attendance at the game in Charlotte, which was a blast! Yeah, I'm a little concerned about the lottery odds, but they're playing better due to the growth of their young guys (Cade, Bey, Stewart, Bagley, etc), so I can't complain about that. As far as the lottery, I just want to be in the position where taking Ivey is a no brainer, like Cleveland's decision to draft Mobley last year. Detroit and Houston made the decision for them and Mobley fell into their lap. I think the 3rd pick is about right for that scenario to happen.

I actually enjoyed it until the end of the 4th when Casey let Cojo and Grant go solo for 4 minutes and nearly blow the game rather than leaving Hami and Killian in there. Cade and Bey struggled to shoot, although Cade still filled up the box score, but this was a pretty impressive defensive performance overall from the team. They basically shut Mobley down for most of the game, and without Garland there to get him easy buckets it really showed why Cade should be Rookie of the Year. Killian didn't score but he was seriously impactful on defense and played a nice floor game on the other end. His defense was also infectious, sparking the rest of them to really crank it up. I've never seen Grant play this hard on D as a Piston. Hami was outstanding on both ends and continues to show why he's a part of this team's future. Also reminded me why I want Ivey so bad in this draft. When you're that gifted athletically, you can simply make things happen. Add the offensive skillset that Ivey has and look out. He'd be a great backcourt fit next to Cade. Bagley also had a great game, showing why we needed an athletic big like him on the roster. He put down a ridiculous alley-oop after a sweet behind the back dribble move from Cade that got me out of my seat. I'm ok with wins as long as it's the young, developing players getting us there. In this case it was Hami (23), Bagley (22), Killian (20), and Stew (20) who showed out in various ways while Cade (20) filled up the stat sheet - not Cojo, Grant, or Olynyk.

Terrible.

No shooting, no athleticism, no coaching. Bad recipe. Seriously though, watching what Hami accomplishes out there with very little basketball skill and just raw athleticism and effort shows you how important that is in the NBA. Defensive plays, rebounds, drawing fouls, scoring in the paint, and more, all just because he's faster and can jump higher than most other players. Unless you can find generational shooters like Curry to combine with a creative coach like Kerr who uses ball and people movement to get players good looks, it just seems wiser to go after athletes and grow their skills rather than the reverse. So many examples of this in NBA, with guys like Donovan Mitchell, Ja Morant, Giannis, etc. I'm a huge fan of Bey, but if an Athlete like Giannis (or even Hami) decided to lock in on him defensively (the way defense is played in the playoffs), he's going to get shut down unless he's got an athletic creator next to him getting him open looks. The same cannot be said in reverse. That's one of the main reasons I'm on the Jaden Ivey train for this draft.

Hopefully it'll get even better with a lob threat coming to town.

I'm fine with the Bagley move now. It gets rid of JJ and Lyles, who both needed to go and you get to try out Bagley before you buy. Even more importantly, it gets you a rim threat which you need for Cade and Killian's development. The guards are getting killed out there with these double teams and nobody to take the pressure off of them on the pick n roll. He's also a solid rebounder, which we desperately need. Not saying we're trying to win games here, but let's try to make it more competitive. Of course, this all depends upon Casey not just slotting Bagley into the Lyles spot and having him go out there and create his own shots on spots ups and isolations. That's what the Kings did and it will end in disaster here too. He's got to be used as a rim threat where his numbers are very good over the course of his short career.

The team has the second worst offensive rating when he's in the lineup - second only to Stewart. A lot of this is on Grant. But let's be honest, a ton of it is on Casey. This is the most simple-minded offense in the league. There's zero creativity, very little ball movement, and almost no off-ball movement or screening. Casey also obviously doesn't coach shot selection or cater plays to specific players strengths. The end result is a ton of isolation play, which puts Jeremy in the worst possible position to use his strengths. I want to say that the top priority this off-season is moving Grant, but I think it's actually far more important to either move Casey into a development role so we can get a real coach, or do what Toronto did and get him an offensive coordinator. A Casey team will never play above the sum of its parts and most often it will play below it's potential. On top of that, it's having a negative impact on the development of key guys like Cade, Bey, and even Killian.

Really disappointing. Grant's trade value was at its highest an hour ago. Teams were jockeying for playoff power with no clear favorite this year. Grant had 1.5 years on his contract, which is the perfect time for a team to be able to try him out for a playoff run before having to commit to the extension he's going to ask for this summer. From here, his trade value begins to slowly decline. Weaver could still recover by making a wise move this offseason, but if he extends Grant or lets him go into next season, then you can add this to the mistake side of Weaver's tally, which is getting larger. I'm still neutral on him overall at this point, but this offseason is going to be a big one.

Nets are shopping those two firsts. Give us those two firsts, Cam Thomas, and Harris for Grant. At least that will help me decide who to root for when the Nets (KD) face the 76ers (Harden) in the playoffs - I can pull for Grant and Bruce Brown. 10 minutes until the deadline. It's funny that 1 month ago Grant was the most likely big name to get traded. Here we are at the end of the line and a ton of other big names got moved but we're still hanging on tight to Grant. The handling of Grant will be a big determining factor in the story of Weaver as GM, so let's see what happens.

...and 2 second round picks. But it looks like the lesser of the CLE and GS 2nd rounders next year and the SAC 2nd rounder in 2024, so not too bad. Happy to get JJ off the roster. As for Lyles, he had some decent offensive games but he's a train wreck on defense and at 26 he kinda is what he is. So I'm happy to take a flier on a 22 year old athlete like Bagley who has an archetype that could fill a huge need for this team.

Grant really highlighting why we need to move him in these games since he came back. Lots of mid-range contested shots, turning his body away from contact when he does go the rim, and just being a ball stopper far too often. He's best as a high level role player, but that's not what he wants to be because he wants that next paycheck. He's also given Weaver a "list of teams" that he wants to play for and made it public that he wants to be a "top option" on any team he goes to. At this point my loyalty to Grant for coming here is gone since he's actively tanking his own trade value and holding the organization hostage to his list. We've got to get something for him now or this offseason at the latest. I don't want him getting a 25M/yr extension. And if we let him walk for no return, that's just bad asset management. You could argue that other teams see this as well, and you'd be right. But those teams are looking for the final piece(s) to push them over the top so they're at the stage where taking Grant makes sense. The Pistons are far from that, so spending our cap on a role player who doesn't fit the timeline is not the way.

This game was so painful to watch.

Yep, really wish we could've managed to do something like that for Grant instead. Haliburton would've been nice next to Cade.

I'm not sold on Myles Turner at all. He's not a rim-runner, nor is he a great rebounder. He loves those low percentage threes (well below league average shooting). On top of all that, I don't like the lower body injury history on a guy that size. I agree that he's a very good rim protector and defender though. His contract is also in the same spot as Grant's, which means he'll be looking for a big extension or payday coming up soon and I really don't like the idea of tying up all that money in a Center in today's NBA. Especially one with the issues I've listed above and when we're so far from competing for a top playoff spot.

Killian went from looking lost in the 1st half to having his best quarter as a pro in the 4th. I saw some things from him offensively that I've never seen before - things that could be considered "flashes" of what he could be with some impressive driving finishes at the basket and even a dunk in traffic. Grant is not helping his trade value. He's not looking like someone who will command a 1st and a young player in return. I'm increasingly concerned about his desire to be a top option on a team. It's hurting his trade value, especially when teams are seeing him perform like he did yesterday with drives that end in turnovers or bad shots and, of course, his patented long range two pointers. I hope we trade him before he demands an extension, but either way he needs some self awareness. Kelly continues to look bad. That signing - and what it cost us to get rid of Plumlee to make it happen - continue to look like a bad move from Weaver. We could really have used Plumlee's size, rebounding, and pick and roll threat this year and we wouldn't have had to give up any assets to get it. Bey with another nice game, playing a key role in a close loss. Also, I hate Patrick Beverly.

The numbers would indicate a close race for RoY between the two, but the media hasn't caught up to what Cade has been doing and the Cavs are having a lot of surprise success as a team so that's gaining Mobley more attention. Plus, he came out of the gates hot and people start jumping on the bandwagon - now they don't want to come out and make their own premature Twitter takes look bad by saying Cade could be RoY.

Who knows what they will look like in 3 years, but Mobley has much better players around him that allow him to do what he does best. Cade is literally doing everything for this team and the opponents know it. At this point, I'd still have taken Cade #1 overall.

Yep, that's the exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about. People just haven't caught up yet.

Cade's not really getting the respect league-wide yet. It's a case of nobody watching the team, so perception is lagging behind reality. They came up with their narrative on Cade after he struggled during the first 30 days and it'll take them another month or two to catch up to where he's at now. I've heard a number of views from outside of Detroit media in the past couple of weeks that feel like takes from October - word has not spread and they aren't paying attention to this team at all.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2022/1/25/22901378/nba-trade-rumors-john-collins-jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-atlanta-hawks If the Hawks truly are interested in finding a new home for Collins and they're calling about Grant, we need to find a way to get this done. We couldn't find a better fit for Cade than Collins and I think he'd pair well with either a spacing Center (Kelly) or a rebounding shot blocker (Mitchell Robinson as a FA). Add Ivey in the draft rather than going after one of those big men and all of a sudden you've flipped the athleticism story for this team on its head. ATL will want more than Grant, but I can't imagine it's too far off. They could really use his defense and ability to score more than they can use Collins rim running (remember, they already have Capella to fill that role). CoJo has been increasing his trade value as a toss in, so he could be a valuable asset for ATL when Young is resting. JJ, Frank Jackson, Stew, Hayes...I'd do what I had to do to make this move. Cade, Bey, and maybe Hami are the only untouchables in my opinion. A lineup of Cade, Ivey, Bey, Collins, and Olynyk could make some serious noise next year. I don't like paying Centers a ton, but they may even consider tossing the bank at Ayton at that point because that would be a pretty deadly young core. I still like the PWilliams deal as well and it'd be a tough call for me if they were both on the table.

Agreed about Grant. There's no better time to move him than now. I don't hate that Minnesota offer, but I don't love it either. The pick is one of the better ones you'd get, since most other interested parties will be true contenders, but the player return isn't as strong as a Patrick Williams. I also think this offseason is the right time to move Casey into a development front office role. Let him do what he does best, which is help the locker room by teaching young kids to become men and develop them. He's done a fabulous job of that and it's the one thing I give him a ton of credit for. On the other hand, I want him off the court. He's a terrible X and Os coach, his offensive sets are simplistic three man basketball, there's little movement of players or the ball, and it's reliant on isolation basketball. He also is a terrible in-game strategist and has no clue how to put players in the best positions to succeed on the court based upon their particular skill sets. We watch teams like Denver and Golden State zip the ball around and talk about how much fun it is, but we'll never have an offense like that with Casey at the helm. I only bring that up because you mentioned Grant's isolations - some of that is on Grant, but I think a lot of it is on Casey as well. We're just happy now because we're seeing Cade and Bey iso's instead of Grant and they usually do better things with their iso than shoot a 19 footer - but the plays are the same and they're easy to defend. There's a reason Casey won Coach of the Year the same year that Nick Nurse arrived to fix the offense - Toronto fans will be happy to tell you all about their love/hate relationship with Casey.

Heck of a game by Cade in a competitive loss. It was a lot of fun to watch him just take over. These are the types of losses I like to see this year, not the 30 point blowouts. Great to see Cade continuing to improve and we're not even at the All Star break yet. This team needs a real Center so bad. Watching Cade do all this damage while having both defenders crowd him after the pick is painful. His stat-line would've been even more impressive with a lob threat out there. I've been calling for having Killian run the bench unit, so I hope that's the plan going forward rather than just these couple of games due to the hip injury. He was supposed to be a pick n roll maestro and a great passer - we won't see that with him in the starting lineup alongside Cade. Let's let him run the bench unit and see what we have by year end. We already know he's a very good defender. Does he just become a bust, does he improve his shooting and fall into the Lonzo Ball 3 and D PG archetype, or does he he improve his ball skills and fall into the Ricky Rubio archetype? That's what we need to know going into the offseason.

I wouldn't do it. I'd rather hold Grant and try to move him this offseason than take a deal for Turner. On the plus side, he's 2 years younger than Grant and the Pistons need a competent Center who can block shots. However, you have the same contract issue with both of them. They'll want a big payday in 1.5 years (or an extension this summer) that the Pistons are trying to avoid since they aren't ready to compete now. Plus, I wouldn't tie up 30M/yr in a Center in today's NBA. If you watched last season's playoffs you saw a lot of bigs - even top guys like Gobert and Ayton - sitting on the bench for long periods when teams spread the court on them. Great in the regular season, but bigs are getting exposed in the playoffs these days. He's also not a good rebounder for his position and size (6.7 per game). He's not a rim runner, preferring to step out and take that three - which he's below average at (33%), even though he takes 4 a game. He also has recent injury issues that are concerning when you're talking about a big man's feet/legs. I want the same thing Weaver wants - a young prospect and a 1st rounder. I'm looking at guys like Patrick Williams, Wiseman, Kuminga, Collins, Anfernee Simmons, Okongwu, etc.

The deal was obviously not true since we can't trade a first anyway, but even if it could have been true in some alternate reality I wouldn't have touched it with a 10' pole. Grant, Bey, and a first rounder? That's going in the opposite direction for a rebuilding team. No way he's worth that, his contract is terrible, he can't shoot, and he's a diva. If you asked to trade Grant for Simmons straight up I'd say no and wouldn't think twice - he's the opposite of what this team needs.