NYLion

No kidding. That was some pristine turd polishing by Edwards. The return was weak, there's just no getting around that.

James Edwards tweeted that the Pistons will be heavily pursuing Ayton. I trust Edwards way more than whoever this random twitter guy is.

Yeah, that's the key. What Weaver does with this extra cap flexibility will determine the value of the trade, the picks are pretty worthless. The thing is, I see very few positive paths with this free agency class. I don't see Weaver as a creative enough GM like Presti to weaponize the cap space to add high picks so prepare for some combination of Ayton, Brunson, Bridges, Sexton.

They didn't get 36, they swapped 46 for 36. 2nds are virtually worthless in the NBA. It's essentially a likely late 1st when Weaver might not even be GM anymore if things go sideways and filler. The real value is not extending Grant and clearing cap space, the return is a nothing burger. It's slightly better than the Wood return but pretty much in the ballpark and I look dumb for saying that Wood isn't comparable to Grant in terms of value.

Which reports? Like 90% of the mocks have them taking Murray with a few on Mathurin. I know that a lot of folks here really like Murray but I'm very underwhelmed by him, he's a #3 option at BEST if he reaches his max potential IMO and is more likely a role player that will never be as good as Grant even.

Boy am I a dummy for suggesting that Grant had more value than Wood. Weak value but it seems pretty obvious that Weaver is planning something big this offseason but clearing all that cap space and I'm pretty sure we won't like it since there are no stars out there worth cashing out on. This also means that Murray is more than likely the pick which I'm also not a fan of. Not a good start to the offseason from my point of view. Lol at you guys thinking that Weaver would do something smart by trading for Hayward with the picks attached. I fully expect Weaver to max Bridges.

I'm sure most of Weaver's top 4 are projected to go before 5 (assuming that Ivey is a part of that top 4) so he'll need one of them to fall to get his guy i.e at the mercy of the board. The closer we get to this thing, the more I hope Ivey falls. He has some serious deficiencies but he has the star potential that Murray and Mathurin just don't have and you need stars to win in this league. I wavered on this for a while and had Mathurin over Ivey earlier in the process but now I'm on Ivey. The shooting can be worked on but that natural elite athleticism and attack mentality is too enticing to turn down. Not to mention that Ivey actually wants to be here. I still have a hard time believing that the Kings won't maximize the value of that pick by taking the long term upside in Ivey or trading the pick for a haul but it's the Kings so who knows.

I don't think they'd get a better deal than the Atlanta one at the deadline.

You would think so but I don't see any teams in the late lottery that would be in on him. The rumored (speculated) Atlanta deal of 16th plus Bogdanovic or Gallinari seems a tad underwhelming although I suppose avoiding the Grant extension would be the real value.

No. Grant is better. Wood is one of those fan favorites that isn't actually very good. I wouldn't expect #7 in return for Grant but he's certainly better than Wood, as more of a 2 way guy that teams tend to covet.

Interesting because he insinuated that lots of people in the Kings organization prefer Murray including Rivadive (the owner) and Mike Brown and what's also interesting is that Ivey was interviewed recently and asked about where he thinks he might go/wants to go and he mentioned the Pistons and Pacers but not Kings. I don't know if any of this means much but it seems far from a lock that Ivey goes to the Kings unless they trade the pick and I wouldn't have thought that about a week ago. Also, I'm not entirely sure that the Pistons even take Ivey if he drops to them (and Murray is gone). I could see them taking Mathurin over him.

Hard to tell. They have talent on defense but not enough proven talent to be confident in any unit long term. On paper, the defensive line is the strength but it's dependent on a lot of rookies and 2nd year guys as well as Okwara's health and Harris not being a fluke (the potential is exciting though), same with linebacker and the secondary which is almost exclusively young guys. I'm more confident in the offense going forward even with Goff but there's some health questions to answer at receiver and with Hockenson. Long story short, if we're looking "on paper" at all the units, I'd say that QB and linebacker are the biggest questions over the long term. What I really love about what Holmes is building is that he's putting a specific focus on the trenches, where lots of games are decided, that's where the Lions strength is building with the lines and I don't remember the last time I could say that a Lions team had potential to have a top 10 offensive AND defensive line going forward. Not to mention, the high end talent at the skilled positions. Ultimately though, it comes down to Goff. He's being set up to succeed with what Holmes has added the last two offseasons so it's make or break time for him this upcoming season.

Maybe but I think you'll find this interesting given this subjective top NFL QBs list 1) Mahomes - 10th pick 2) Rodgers - 24th pick 3) Allen - 7th pick (and was considered a reach) 4) Brady - 6th round Other guys in the top 10 or around top 10 include Wilson (3rd rounder) and Prescott (3rd rounder I believe), Jackson was taken late 1st. You do have Stafford, Burrow and Murray that were 1st overalls and Herbert was #5 but a lot of the top QBs weren't the 1st or even 2nd QB taken in their draft (the best rookie this past season was the 5th guy taken) so I don't think it's essential for the Lions to finish bottom 5 to get their franchise QB. The other positive is that a lot of the teams that are slated to be bad next season, the usual suspects of Jacksonville, Jets, Bears won't have a need for QB so could see some fallers or teams more willing to trade down if the Lions want to go get their guy. Houston is probably their biggest roadblock to getting the top QB, maybe Carolina or Atlanta if they have worse seasons than expected. In any event, I'm leaning towards Goff having a better season than most expect and putting somewhat of a lid on the Lions QB need. The "somewhat" is a potential worst case scenario if it leaves the question of QB need in limbo if Goff has a good enough season to make the Lions competitive but I do think that Goff can excel here with the amount of weapons Holmes has amassed and the offensive line already in place. I didn't think that a year ago.

I'm curious to see what you guys think of Ayton and what you'd be willing to give up in a S&T scenario since the Pistons are rumored to be on the short list of teams that could be in on him. Personally, I'm not a big fan of giving a max contract to a pure #5 that only scores from the mid range in. He's essentially a better defending Bagley which is a really good player and I think he'd be a great fit with Cade (as would most players) but I think I'd rather pay Bagley a little more than a third of what Ayton will be making and use that extra money to bring in an athletic wing/guard. Then there's the question of what it would cost in the sign and trade. Grant+5? Grant+Bey? Maybe not that much but I don't think it will come cheap.

I keep flipping back and forth between Murray and Ivey. I think Murray is a better fit because of his versatility and ability to play off of a high end playmaker like Cade in the pick and pop/roll but that Ivey athleticism and rim attacking ability is special. I'm trying to envision a scenario where he learns how to shoot the 3 with more consistency and develops that little floater that Morant perfected and I see immense upside even though the fit alongside Cade isn't ideal. Plus, as we all know, the Pistons really need an injection of high end athleticism in this lineup. Ivey also has that "dog" mentality that I don't see in Murray who seems more content to be a background character in crunch time. I'm sort of cooling on Sharpe the more I think about it. Too much of a mystery box for me and virtually no competitive tape to base anything on. I'd be more inclined to take a shot at him if the Pistons didn't already have their franchise player and had more of a need to take a homerun swing but I don't know if the risk is worth it now, maybe if they get another high pick for Grant somehow.

Actually, I thought his cap management in Detroit was a bigger disaster (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Dekeyser etc. etc.). His cap management still blows in Edmonton (took on Keith at full salary which was crazy and gave Darnell Nurse elite Dman money at $9m+) but a lot of his signings are sure paying off in the short term but long term might be sketchy. The drafting has actually been good so far, the Oilers system hasn't been this loaded in years but remains to be seen until they have NHL success.

I thought he played pretty well with Cade and Bey before he got "injured", seemed to be learning to defer more as Cade took on more on ball responsibilities. I like Grant the player, I loathe the idea of Grant the contract extension.

As a longtime Oilers fan, I'm enjoying the hell out of this playoff run. Kind of weird to see my team playing games through Memorial Day weekend, only the 2nd time that's happened in my Oilers fandom (2006 being the other). Oddly enough, a lot of Ken Holland's moves (to make it Red Wings relevant) that looked questionable earlier in the season are looking golden right now.

I think you meant to say that Portland isn't trading #7 for Grant. I'm sure Troy would consider it although I bet that he values Grant higher than us fans do.

My question with Murray is fit. Since I highly doubt that they trade Grant, I don't see where Murray fits in the Pistons lineup. Bey isn't a 2 and Murray isn't a 3 so not sure how that shuffle works. If they do take Murray, I'd assume that Grant is as good as gone unless they plan to start Murray off the bench which I suppose is possible.

And they don't need another guard, seems like a weak rumor to me. I do think the Kings are a prime candidate for a trade down though which will obviously impact the Pistons. I could see Indiana being interested to get a shot at the hometown kid Ivey to pair with Haliburton, with the rumors also being that they might very well trade Brogdon. I just have a feeling that something unconventional will happen with the Kings pick because.... Kings.

I suppose that could be the case but still don't think Grant holds that type of value even if an extension was agreed to. Agreed entirely with your 2nd sentence. I'm not even sure that Weaver would entertain trading Grant for #7 even if it was offered. I think he loves Grant a lot more than the fans do, I think he sees him as a core piece.

I could easily see Sacramento taking Murray. They're guard heavy so I'd be surprised if they took Ivey (who is basically a poor man's Fox) or Sharpe but maybe I'm wrong. The Kings are the type of franchise that I could see reaching for somebody like Duren.

I'd be really surprised if he was traded but I'm ready to be surprised. Portland not moving up does increase the slim chance of it happening but I doubt they offer up a pick that high for a pending UFA.

They won Cade last year who is a good deal better than any prospect in this draft. The Pistons are the big winners by getting Cade alone.