Jimbo

16th is ridiculous. It really amazes me how someone evaluates players. I definitely think a QB should be evaluated based on multiple things. Win percentage, measurables, eye tests, OL ranking, decision making, stats, durability......etc. How Goff is below half these guys is just plain stupid. You have to put him in the top 10 for his playoff record alone. I have commented multiple times about his play when under pressure. Although that is every QB outside of Mahomes. Even mobile QBs make bad decisions a lot of the time under pressure. It's nice to have the option to run for 20 yards on a broken play but a lot of the time they do something stupid. Its very lazy to not consider changes a QB makes at the line of scrimmage. Or the check downs. Jackson is #2 and don't get me wrong, if I had to choose between having Goff and Lamar, I would pick Lamar (its not a slam dunk though). Although, 14 spots ahead of him is just bad evaluation. All that said, I would put him around 6-8 at this point in his career. Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, Allen are above him for sure (most will agree with this). Hurts and Herbert could be ahead of him as well. I'm sorry but these guys like Stroud and Love definitely look like studs and could easily be a top 5 QB but you have to do it for more than 1 year. Lawrence, Tua are good QB's and have potential if they can stay healthy but not above Goff. Purdy is Goff with less years and hasn't been on a bad team yet. Rodgers, Cousins, and Stafford are definitely capable of being a top 5 QB but their age should bring them down.

I guess there will be Goff/Stafford comparisons until the end of time. Understood, they have a lot in common. Both were #1 picks, both played for only the Rams and Lions, they were traded for each other, ......etc I honestly think they are very close with talent and production. Stafford definitely has a better arm although Goff's is underrated. Goff is more accurate. Goff's mobility is about as bad as it gets although Stafford isn't exactly Michael Vick. I feel like their pocket presence is about the same. I feel like Goff's decision making is slightly better than Stafford's. Although that's so hard to establish because a lot has to do with the rest of the team. Stafford has gotten a lot better as he's gotten older. If you compare their ability to read defenses and make changes at the line at similar ages, Goff has been better earlier in his career (understand the quality of their teams at the same age is drastically different). They both struggle with bad decisions when under pressure. If you think winning percentage matters than Goff has the edge there. I think they both are liked by their teammates. When Stafford was with us, I was in the camp that if you put a team around him, he can win a championship. I usually stuck up for him when friends would want him traded. I was ready to move on though and loved the trade. I will admit that I thought Goff was a stop gap until we got that QB in the draft. Although I always thought he was a good QB and really was kind of surprised LA wanted to move on so much from him. I do think that if there was a Trevor Lawrence or Caleb Williams in the 2022 draft or if we had the #1 pick in the 2021 draft, we would of moved on from Goff. I am happy with our situation now. We are definitely in the mix for a championship in the next 2-3 years.

It's definitely a factor for a WR as to who his QB is although I don't think Nacua is good just because of Stafford. If you watch his catches and what he does after the catch, they were top WR plays. Now if LA had a worse QB or a terrible OL, then perhaps you wouldn't see the numbers he had. Goff deserves credit but I am pretty sure Brown (and Nacua) would be good WR's on other teams. The eye test is probably the most important factor (on determining how good someone is) in football because there is always so many factors that help or prevent someone from being good. Its also sometimes on the WR to give confidence in his QB. Once that is established, they get more opportunities to prove themselves. I think this is going to be important with Jaymo. It seems like Goff had more confidence in him towards the end. Its also a timing factor. I am hoping discussion on here or sports radio (or even himself) can calm down the Goff respect discussion after he got his contract. Besides the extremes on both sides (he's a horrible QB or he's a top 3) I think most of us think he is a top 10-15 QB. I think we all agreed he deserved the shot at taking the Lions to a championship with a new contract. The cost was the big discussion and now that is done with, I think we can all move on. Where he ranks amongst QBs isn't important anymore. There are so many factors on what makes a great/good QB and variety of who are the best QB's in history shows that. What is important is if he can take us over the top.

It'll be interesting to see who will have the better career. Nacua or Brown? They will be compared because of their later round picks and it being the Rams and Lions. If I was a betting man I would go with Brown since he has had more successful seasons and has stayed healthy. Although Nacua was crazy last year and it was only his rookie season. The playoff game against us was ridiculous although it was against last years secondary.

Its kind of crazy to think about the Goff/Stafford trade now after three years. I am pretty sure 99% of the people thought that trade was mainly for the draft picks (which it was the main reason but ended up being a lot more). We were a rebuilding team that could take Goff's contract. I don't think anyone thought Goff would be this good for us. I think how everything laid out was perfect for him. A big factor was we didn't end up with the #1 pick in the 2021 draft and there wasn't a quality QB in the 2022 draft. Another big factor is if LA got an earlier draft pick than 6 in 2023. Would we of traded, taken Anderson, or taken Stroud/Richardson? Most thought he would be serviceable while we built up our team but he wouldn't be with us past his last contract. He did get lucky that the Lions did a great job finding talent around him (especially a top 5 OL). To his credit, he did exactly what he needed to do and drastically exceeded expectations. How the story continues is going to be just as interesting. Does he get us to a championship?

I don't see the Lions making any decisions on Hooker next season. A lot depends on what they feel like they have with him. The Goff signing doesn't say anything about Hooker. Even if they thought Hooker was a possible star in this league, they still had to sign Goff. The Lions are a Super Bowl contender, they had no choice but to go with the team (QB) that got them to the conference championship. I feel like decisions with Hooker will be after next season. If they feel like they have a player like Love that can learn and take over than more difficult decisions will have to be made. This team will be Goff's as long as this team competes for a Championship. He earned the shot to take them to one regardless what kind of player Hooker is.

This is more than I wanted to pay. Not because he didn't deserve it but I was hoping Goff was the kind of guy wanting to pay more towards the rest of the team since this is his 3rd contract. That being said, I thought it would be around this and a year from now it won't be that bad. I am just happy this deal is done before the season started. Goff became a big fan favorite because he was a very good QB after another team didn't want him and was actually willing to give us draft picks to take him. Things change now that the Lions gave him a contract. He is no longer Cinderella but the actual King and with that will come more criticism. He can take it and really besides Mahomes all QBs get that after they get a big contract.

The suspension wasn't the only thing he did that was a dumb decision. Everything he did was harmless but it showed some immaturity. Just saying, seeing what his parents said and the fact that we have strong character personalities on this team made me feel better about his direction. If he turns out as a pro bowler or a very reliable WR is still to be determined. Now everyone loves Campbell and the direction the Lions have gone with high character players. Although it took some time for the fans and media to get on the bandwagon. These are situations why you want a strong locker room. Being a big bad boys fans. Rodman needed those high character players and coaches around him to keep him in line and flourish (Isiah, Jordan, Daily, Jackson,....etc). BTW I am not saying Jaymo is anything close to Rodman (as far as talent or a headcase), just using him as an extreme example. I feel like I am in the twilight zone and most decisions this team has made since getting rid of Quinn and Patricia has been about as good as you could expect. I think one of the underrated decisions was to bring on Spielman to help make these decisions.

What a complete moron. This is what happens when you don't have a good support group around you. Everyone was talking about the decisions Jaymo made and he did do some stupid stuff although after I heard his parents talk, it made me feel good that he had a good support system around him. Also the things he did weren't criminal, just dumb comments and not knowing the rules fully.

I guess the Titans are going for the geriatric WR team. Looks like Burks is out of the rotation there.

This could be one position that we look at the trade deadline. All depending on injuries and DPJ and green making an impact. I am definitely good with Boyd although I think he wants multiple years and not sure we want to do that.

Obviously there are a lot of dumb GM's in the NFL although I am not sure if Goff is thought of as a top 5 QB. To me, that was a dumb contract Atlanta gave Cousins (especially after their draft pick, injury history, and age). I think Goff needs us as much as we need him. Goff is average if he doesn't have a good line and weapons. There was that stretch between the Chicago games that he looked really bad. Or if you go to his start to being a Lion. BTW that is most of the QB's in history. How good is Purdy if he is on Carolina. Although I feel like if you put Purdy on our team, he will be just as good as he is with SF. Goff is going to get paid regardless, I just hope he realizes the cost (with other good players around him) to keep him a top 5 QB and is willing to take a little less. I think that is why there isn't a deal yet. His agent works for Goff and is trying to get the most but I think at some point Goff might tell his agent, OK I am good with a little less to stay on this team for the long term. Or maybe they are waiting for another big QB contract to put more desperation with the Lions. If the Lions give him that 4 years at 200mil or more, the Lions will be good and still compete for the Superbowl although if he is will to do 5 years at 210 or something similar, it could mean actually winning. It goes from being a normal contract for a QB to being a deal, and that is what helps franchises go from great to the best.

I think when Goff gets discussed on here or talk radio or even just amongst friends, it goes into great depth on what he does good and why he is a good or great QB. For his skill set, he is a top 10 QB (just based on his actual skill set and not his stats). My whole thing is how much you pay a QB can really put a franchise back or on pause. Now I do realize that if they sign him to a big contract, that contract in two to three years might not be that bad. Regardless, Goff's contract is going to prevent us from keeping certain players. How much is what I am hoping to avoid. I have seen this happen to so many franchises. Luckily I am not that worried about it because I have total faith in our organization to make the right call. I also don't want the fan support to cause the franchise to over pay for him which luckily again I don't think this current regime would do. That being said, the amount I feel like he should get is around 45mil a year (depending on the length). If he gets 50 or more, I won't be upset, although I will feel like he was overpaid. I also look at what I feel like other teams would pay for him if he was a free agent. Non of that matters if we win a Superbowl or are contenders for it for the next few years.

I just said pro bowler. I don't think whatever combo of guys they put on the line will be a non factor. If your coverage is better there is a lot more you can do up front to put pressure on the QB. I think the biggest factor will be what we do against mobile QBs. Which always seems to kill us. All of this is if the rookies and the guys they picked up in the off season are as good as predicted. Good thing is we also have some depth there. For me, this is the year Glenn needs to prove himself. He has more talent now, so the excuses are gone. I don't think it was Holme's strategy to have a deep secondary, its just the way the draft fell. That's why I like him. He went with talent and then when you have good coaches you have to flexibility to with your strengths. I would of been fine if Arnold was gone and Turner or Verse slipped more and went with them.

I am not anit-Goff. I am anti over paying for him. Saying he is a top 10 QB is not anti-Goff. I just don't want us to overpay. Luckily there is a lot of faith in Holmes. So if he decides hes worth 4 years 200 mil, I am good with that. If you see him wait and franchise him, I am good with that.

This is exactly what I am saying. I have never said that Hurts was a better QB than Goff. It definitely appeared that way two years ago. When I refereed to Philly, I was talking about winning to the SB in 2017 and still being relevant for multiple years with a different QB. Time will tell but the Hurts contract could of hurt (no pun intended) for a while. Philly stayed relevant until they got back to the SB last year by making smart picks even though they didn't have a high draft pick. Hurts was a 2nd round pick. Philly was relevant more because of the rest of the their roster and not because of the QB. I think Purdy is good but I don't think he is a top 10 QB. If SF decides to give him a huge contract they will be in a bad situation for a while. I want to keep Goff but not for a crazy amount. I think we would be better off franchising him and going with Hooker or someone else long term if Hooker isn't that guy.

I think if your a good to great GM, you can make some bold changes and still be relevant before your back in the mix for a super bowl. Something similar to what Philly did. The good thing about the Lions is that they had nothing and then built through the draft and have a lot of young players so I think their run will be longer. On the difficult end is they don't have that QB like MaHomes or Brady where you can still be a Superbowl contender in your down years. Goff is good but if you don't have players around him (especially an OL) you won't be a Superbowl contender. That is why I don't want to go crazy on his contract. If 3 years or less I am good for 50mil a year although if its more I don't want to pay more than 40-45 mil. If you do you could mortgage the future. I think he knows this and is why it might take a little longer to get a contract done.

I think having a good (and possibly great) secondary will be almost as helpful to Hutch as another high end edge rusher. You don't need another pro bowler on the opposite side when you have a good secondary. You can afford to blitz when you have better coverage. I am also curious how Campbell looks in his second year with a better secondary. If you look at the whole off season, our defense is significantly better.

I totally agree with you Cardinal. I've been saying this amongst friends and on here. What separates Holmes from other Lion's GM's and other current NFL GM's are the moves to get relevant and pro bowl players in spots that you're not supposed to. I don't remember a GM in recent Detroit sports history that is as complete and can find talent that others can't. Stevie looks like he has it from some of the Wings picks (and Tampa) although until they make the playoffs you can't even put him in the same category. The obvious picks aren't going to win you championships in the NFL. I actually think the most important picks to be relevant for a long time, are the depth picks because in the NFL, there are always injuries. The depth picks also allow you to let some guys go that are really good to great players although you can't pay everyone.

They should be considered when evaluating any QB. Goff is a top 10 QB and should be paid accordingly. Although his success is directly related to the quality of his offensive line like most QBs.

Next to the Goff stats should be the offensive line rankings as well

It'll definitely be interesting to see what Holme's draft will be his best 10 years from now. A lot of unknowns from last years draft still since its only 1 year. Does Hooker make any contribution (even if its a trade)? Does Sorsdal or Martin ever start? Can Green be a depth guy? To me though, the biggest question for this draft being his best will be if Cambell ends up being a prowl bowler. To be considered better than 2021. It would be interesting to compare his drafts with other great GM's. A lot would have to be considered.

There will for sure be people complaining with whoever they pick but I also think that is just what some people do. I have a few friends that just love to be negative or act like their negative. Last year was fun to listen to their roller coaster season. For me, having a competent GM made this draft less interesting because I actually have faith in Holmes. I have enjoyed looking at potential players but I am not invested in any of them based on mock drafts and what I think they should do. I have two players I am going to predict they take just for the fun of it though. I think they come out of this draft with DeJean or Legette.

Lion's had to pay Brown because of his low salary for 3 years. I don't think you have to pay Goff $50 because it will be his third big contract. I could be wrong but I think Goff should be good with taking less (maybe $45 mil a year) if he wants to continue being protected (which he clearly needs to be successful). Maybe he will take less to get more years, like 5 years $200 mil.

The Lions are now at the point where your not just picking for actual starters but depth and future starters. If you can draft position you are strong at (like the OL) but can replace a high salary player 1-3 years from now and also have quality depth in case of an injury, its just as good as picking a starter. That's why drafts are hard to grade even 1 year from the actual draft. It's going to be very hard to find starter in the draft now. CB, K, S, WR (X position) and maybe edge are really the only spots you can really draft a player better than what we already have at the spot we are picking. Not saying it can't happen (especially with Holmes trading history) and we know Holmes can do it, it just will be very difficult. I just don't think this draft is a failure if they don't find an immediate starter. Even if you draft a CB, chances they are starting day 1 is not a guarantee.