gehringer_2

No doubt - but he was still getting a chance - and the chance matters to how you feel about your prospects on a season. I say up front have no idea if he actually thinks this, but if *I* were Dylan Larkin, aside from missing the playoffs I would be pretty totally pissed of that I'd been playing for 10 yrs on a team that let me get regularly run at and sat on their hands. Personally, I don't know how that could not get under a skill player's skin after a while. Maybe it never did, but like I said, I'd be fed up with it.

after playing in the Worlds and then the Olympics he got a taste of how the other side lives. And maybe there is more to team building than just talent level. I think Tyler Bertuzzi had pretty much warn out his welcome after Covid, yet once he left this team never seemed to have the same heart. This team is an assemblage of players with almost no 'light a fire" guys. Maybe larks woke up at some point and realized he doesn't like his own team that much anymore, I wouldn't. 🤷‍♂️

I think fans think a lot more about how much a player cares about his 'legacy' somewhere than a player does. All that 'legacy' plus $5 gets him a Vente. Also a clarification to the story above: It may have been years in Det before Yzerman got a cup, but he was in the playoffs almost every year from his rookie season and they got to the conference finals by his 4th year. His team was regularly getting their shot, so no comparable level of futility.

I think Hongbits's speculation that Yzerman wanted to remove his "C" is an interesting take. Of course we have zero data, but it's one of those ideas that make other things fall into a more orderly progression. And you wonder how the locker room would feel about that - plus? minus? Who know?. TBH, I've always thought it a little odd that the Wings coach didn't pick his captain. Not that Larkin wouldn't have been the obvious choice at the time, but the fact that the "C" was bestowed by the FO rather than the HC struck me as odd even at the time. Along the same line, maybe McLelland wanted no captain because he thought the team needed to develop broader leadership and it wasn't happening and the whole message turned into something toxic by the time it got to Larkin. Mc has talked about the team not having enough other sources of leadership a lot. A ton of possibilities we'll no doubt never find out about. 🤔

Larking is a multimillionaire with expensive legal and business management in front of him. He's not going to fall over on a dare from a famous ex-Jock, any more than Yzerman is going to do something just to spite Larkin that's going to hurt the billion dollar business he is responsible for. In modern sports in the end the money is the voice in the room that gets listened to. 😟

I think this is a bit more more melodramatic than it would actually get. People mostly talk to each other that way in film or on line - not so much in real life. Besides, I doubt if Larkin quakes over the possibility of Steve Yzerman trying to break his self confidence and I doubt Yzerman would any point in trying. Not to mention If Larkin wants to insult Yzerman he's got plenty of fodder over the progress of the team "you were only as good as your assistant GM in Tampa" etc. 😄. That's what a screenwriter would come up with anyway. . But that kind of pissing match between two grown ass men would be a pretty juvenile exercise. Not to mention that if it's really strained the communication is going to be via the agent anyway. Back in the real world the point about the leaks not being in the Larkin camp interest is a solid one, and from what I understand his agent is generally known as a pretty discreet guy. So either it came from the team, or Dylan himself was dumb enough to talk to St.James without his agent's knowledge.

this needs more than one "laugh" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

😄 Intel? isn't that the company the market had left for dead a little more than a year ago? I hope Gelsinger has held onto a lot of shares after taking his leave. He deserves to be the one laughing all the way to the bank. (Forego profits today to invest really big for a stronger company tomorrow? Not if your're listed on a US exchange you don't. Only AI IPO darlings allowed to do that!)

and we don't have anything but a leak that was probably planted with an agenda on that topic so who really knows? I think the Wings don't have much choice though - if he sits out, they're going to be a worse team than this year, which is unacceptable, if he doesn't sit out, you've got Vancouver, - with Mclelland trying to manage a locker room possibly split down the middle? - even worse.

It's a situation with more than the usual amount of interpersonal baggage. After all, it was Yzerman that hand picked Larkin for the 'C', Dylan was his guy, and now five years later it's Larkin saying he doesn't want to play for him and/or he's lost faith in Yzerman's ability to put a winner on the ice. So sure, Yzerman should be unhappy. But OTOH, he knows what he probably 'promised' Larkin in terms of where the team was going when he negotiated Larkin's deal and no question the team has not delivered its end, so he's got to look in the mirror a little as well. In the end, it's not in either side's interests not to try to get something done and move on at a profit. The big decision for Yzerman, and maybe Ilitch, is where do you want to go given the change in situation? Are you going to deal for youth/pics and extend the rebuild hoping to reach real SC viability, or is it just 'get into the playoffs' desperation time - take whatever deal can produce an immediate 10 more points than last season.

US market just shrugged it off "Asian stocks. We don't need no steenking Asian stocks!"

that's gonna leave a mark.

exactly - which is why Hughes is probably the 1st person Guerin talks to before deciding whether he's in or out. He gets a deal on the table with Hughes contingent on landing Larkin before he calls Yzerman back.

this. Larkin is the perfect get for the Wild and *if* they can swing it so they lock up Hughes as part of the overall package - which is a real possibility, it's almost better than perfect for them. But the return fit for Det is poor. So my only quibble with the formulation is that Yzerman needs to be looking for that 3rd party fit as hard as he wants Guerin to.

Making the team better the day after the trade than the day before is going to be a very tough lift unless he is willing to take older players, in which case that just guarantees falling off the cliff later. Maybe if you package Cossa you can get enough to actually improve the team, but then what are you going to do when Gibson runs out of gas in the 2nd half again? Bank on Augustine I guess?

Does anyone know if Keith made the off season change in his setup on his own, or with a consultant, or with team guidance? He's now the poster child for the risk of trying to make changes in the way you hit in the off-season. Even with Traject machines and whole nine yards of tech there is apparently still no way to be sure if what you worked on/committed to, is going to work against MLB pitching. FWIW, without finding video to compare, it looks to me like he has already moved back to a somewhat higher bat position than he started out the season, but without much result so far.

working with a different staff. That's seems to be the recurring question about his tenure here, has he assembled as good a staff as he had in Tampa?

They will have to pay someone a lot to take Machado's contract. Tatis? I don't know enough about his medicals but at least theoretically there may still be a great player there if he got fully healthy. A dice roll though.

interestingly enough Rdrs loves McGonigle at both SS and 3b, though sample size is too small for that stat to tell you much yet - just that he certainly can't be outright bad and still be plus 7 even if the sample is small. On statcast, he's minus one overall (good not great) and it jumps right out that he is positive against RHB, negative against LHB at both SS and 3rd, which supports the theory that his first step or two are plenty quick but he does suffer range wise when he is left with more ground to cover and has to go farther. Also agree his throwing velo is meh, but I think he mostly makes up for that with a very quick release, so I don't see that as so much of an issue. Range limit would hurt at 2b when men are on. I'll say 3b next to a SS with + range should be the optimum for him.

Sounds like a situation where a three way deal could be the best answer. Does Yzerman have the skill to engineer one?

absolutely

notable how this discussion has written Keith right out of the picture..... Not that I am surprised, but just a reminder how tenuous the hold of even the best prospects is on a successful MLB career.

Guys hitting well is always optimal!

I don't think he'd hold out. He'll come to camp, put his head down and play and the situation for Mclelland will be intolerable until Yzerman moves him.

The Wings are in a horrible place overall - blame weird lottery luck, blame Holland - whatever - bottom line is that Yzerman's rebuild has failed and they are stuck being a marginal play-off team at best in any near future. Yzerman constantly bemoans how hard it is to obtain stars - he wasn't able to when the team was bad and they were screwed by the lottery. That's water under the bridge now though, nothing to do about it. If they are going to move forward moving Larkin gives him the chance to have a sit down with Ilitch and say "If you support me I will start this over and we are going to be bad again but we are going to move enough players to get back into the draft and find the players to produce a winner in Raymond's and Seider's windows. Or they can keep stumbling along until Yzerman eventually gives up or Ilitch decides he's had enough. Or maybe some kind of unforeseen lighting strikes and some star falls in their lap. However you look at it the light at the end of the tunnel for this team right now is the train coming at them.