mtutiger

This makes sense. At the end of the day, all of this stuff falls in the "YMMV" department.

Pretty much the same story for me. Quite a few family members as well whose mind I will not be changing lol

On the discussion of trasmissibility, while things seem to change significantly day-to-day with COVID, my understanding is that there still is less transmissibility among the vaxxed. I buy that it has been overplayed (especially with this new variant), but has there been science that has said that there isn't any difference? EDIT: Ed beat me to it.

This seems pretty in-line with everything I've heard.

If the vaccines are causing illnesses to be milder, then the vaccines are working. Hospitalization / mortality data seems to suggest this. So yes, seems pretty clear the vaccines are working.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to talk about how substitutes don't do anything. But either way, this seems like too low a bar.

Yeah, that doesn't add up at all.

Part of why it may appear milder may be the high vaccination rate tho - certainly if one looks at the hospitalization / mortality numbers, there has been evidence that outcomes with the unvaccinated are a lot worse. Even with the new variant.

See, it reminds me way more of President Trump. He keeps going on about the election being stolen from him for so long (despite all evidence against) and won't stop lying about it.

Basically correct. I don't think the average person is thinking about the big debates on policy - they are looking at the COVID situation and aren't thrilled. It's not good if you're in a position of power - as other leaders in the free world could attest right now as well. A lot of his standing comes down to the COVID situation and inflation.... assuming no additional variants, COVID is probably the first kidney stone to pass. Inflation is a bit trickier.... there's a lot of belief among economists that we may be close to the peak. If not, the midterms will be rough.

I mean, Biden's drop in approval during his first year in office isn't too far off Trump's during 2017. But as with Trump, a drop in approval doesn't necessarily mean that voters wouldn't vote for them again.

A lot of this harkens back to the debates Eric and I would have during the Trump administration about how his actions should be judged. Just like how Trump's behavior shouldn't lower expectations or cause him to be graded on a curve versus other Presidents, Fox and it's employees shouldn't be judged on lower expectations or graded on a curve either based on the expectations that they don't pretend to be fair. That's not to say that CNN shouldn't be criticized either, they absolutely should when they screw things up.... I don't have any love for them. But a lot of this "CNN holds themselves to a higher standard, therefore I'm gonna criticize them more harshly" stuff nets out as letting Fox off the hook for it's own indiscretions IMO.

That's not how the real world works. Both of them should be fired.

Of course, after this weekend, the Lions may be the only ones extending a hypothetical "last playoff win" chart....

I could see that. But my counter would be that Donald Trump was (still is) far more influential, since he was President, which raises the stakes for Hannity's actions to be above that of Chris Cuomo/Andrew Cuomo. Put another way, I have a lot more interest in Trump because I was a constituent of his. Whereas, since I don't live in NY, not so much with Cuomo.

No more than 100000 cases... probably closer to 60000.

Also, not "everyone on this site" loves CNN or MSNBC. I dont watch either one, nor do I read their articles. I know Tater framed the debate, but at the end of the day, this debate over which one is worse is like arguing whether dying by lightning strike or shark attack is worse. Seems like both suck.

They are also taking a beating in the courts, given the some $4 billion in libel lawsuits they are tied up in

This picture is exactly what I'm getting at. You don't see many people wearing these shirts obviously, but a short jaunt down one's Facebook account reveals a lot of opinions where one is really questioning the strength of civic society.

Really. I'm sure the board's resident Canadian and the most civil member of this board are "working against the US" by happening to have similar opinions. Jesus, give it a rest.

Also, there is nothing wrong with criticizing government officials or government policy. Hell, I see that every single day from Republicans toward the current administration. It doesn't make people "anti-American". What worries me though is that, unlike the past, people don't drop their sabers on things of collective interest in the way they did in the past. Today it's the virus, but what happens if we end up in a shooting war? That's what Rob was getting at in his post about rations, and just when I take a look at social media, it just seems to me like partisans (yes Archie, including conservatives) seem to hate people on the opposite side of the political debate more than they hate our actual adversaries or more than they hate a deadly virus. I don't think it's as bad off line, but on the internet? Everything is just toxic as hell.

Definitely, they have a long way to go, but the turnaround in terms of locker room morale pushes his B into the B+/A- category. They may have sucked, and he himself may still have some learning to do as a coach, but it's hard to recall a time when the Lions have gotten those types of efforts late in the midst of a lost season. It's raised my eyebrows a bit.

I think you misunderstand my point completely. I'm not talking about criticizing American policy or it's elected officials. That's been going on since the start. I'm referring to the fact that, at least if social media is the barometer, there is very that binds Americans together anymore. Conservatives appear to hate liberals more than they hate actual hostile foreign actors (Russia, China, etc.), and liberals just hate on conservatives like that as well. And the elected officials you refer to (ie. the MTGs and Ted Cruz' of the world) are more than happy to egg it on and divide.