mtutiger

I think this is right.... and I think the same electorate that, yes, gave Donald J. Trump the victory in last years election did not expect the most maximalist, Stephen Miller-esque posture from the incoming administration either. You see it in polling data and how their numbers on immigration enforcement saw their biggest collapses after Kilmar Abrego Garcia and after LA. The reality is that while people do not like illegal immigration and expect people to try and legally migrate, they expected an enforcement regime that would be centered on removing *criminals* from the streets. Instead, they are getting an enforcement regime that is interesting in juicing the stats as much as humanly possible in order to meet unrealistic quotas for deportation (2 million in a year).... which in turn means they aren't focusing on criminals, but anybody and everybody they can possibly get their hands on, and doing so in a dragnet style, shooting first and asking questions later (metaphorically speaking). No freaking wonder people are pissed off. If you wanted to fix this from a policy perspective, the median position is to do a good job on the border (which again, Trump has done just looking at the stats) and to provide way to adjudicate those that are here without legal status (including some like dreamers who didn't even make the choice themselves) in a way that is reasonably fair, doesn't **** up the economy, etc., which these guys decidedly have NOT done.

Somebody needs to take his license plate away lol

Always hilarious to see you bitch about people not addressing your point only for you to proceed to not address points. I think we're done here.

Because, as a taxpayer, those officers work for me. And because those officers (ostensibly) are working on my behalf, their actions should be transparent and their should be forums for accountability when they go beyond the bounds of their charge. Or even when they break laws. And given that my tax dollars are going to pay for them, I find it inexcusable that they get to hide behind masks and have unmarked uniforms. The "doxxing" thing is just a big ol' excuse to dodge any sort accountability for any mistakes or overreaches that are being directed by this administration. Your continued lack of attention on this suggests to me that you'd be fine with them being unaccountable to anything or anyone.

The legal system is maybe the one avenue for sure, but your latter point demonstrates that it isn't a failsafe by any means.

Which gets back to @oblong's point from earlier.... masked men going around and snatching people off the street without any available forums for accountability is pretty much textbook police state stuff.

If ICE officers cannot put their names on their uniforms and wear masks to conceal their identity.... and are under the control of an administration that clearly has no interest in transparency.... what forms of accountability does the agency (or those working for the agency) have exactly?

Great question.... at this point, with this administration in charge, it's pretty clear that ICE is an organization that is an opaque organization that feels that it is above any sort of accountability. Gee, no wonder it's actions are unpopular and the American public increasingly dislikes it.

It's worth noting that said website would likely not exist if, like normal law enforcement officers, they would wear their name and show their faces. The "doxxing" thing is an excuse to refuse any sort of accountability.

Let's be honest, 2.) is that they know the actions are deeply unpopular with the broader public. I have no doubt that at least some of them are ashamed of it and no doubt think this isn't what they signed up for, particularly those who have been pulled off of other efforts with other agencies. Morale is clearly low. You can also see it in the ridiculous signing bonuses, age requirements and enlisting D-list celebrities like Dean Cain to market the efforts for new hires as well.... if the public doesn't believe in the effort, believe in the mission, they aren't going to be running to sign up no matter how much you pay them or how much you cut the standards for hiring. The whole "doxxed and harassed" thing is all just downstream of the fact that they are doing stuff that the broader American public does not want them to do.

Why do they have masks covering their faces? I don't see Illinois State Troopers out and about wearing masks, what's these guys' excuse?

Not as a law enforcement officer, but yes. I stand by my comments.

I'm not following regarding this, seems like it's directed at someone else. I flat out do not like the way that this administration handles immigration enforcement and law enforcement more generally, and this incident is just another piece of evidence that their handling of these matters sucks. Not the least of which that the way they are going about these matters makes the job of police to solve other crimes that much more difficult (because they are creating an environment of distrust). I also think that you can be against the way these guys are conducting their business and feel that immigration is a serious issue. I don't have an issue, for instance, with having a tighter border. And (probably the only time you'll hear me say it) they have done a decent job bringing the numbers down at the border. But I am against casting an indiscriminate dragnet and, if anything, we should be looking at ways for those here nonviolently to be able to find work and contribute. Or for kids who came here through no fault of their own when they were babies to be able to go to college and contribute. Assuming he's afforded some level of due process, I'll defer to the legal system.

I'll concede this, no.... but that doesn't absolve 4+ of these officers acting like a bunch out of control maniacs either.

It'd sure help if they'd take the masks off.... police officers in my village and state don't wear them, why should these guys be wearing them?

Does a suspect resisting arrest absolve law enforcement their responsibility in keeping their composure or acting with some level of restraint? I didn't see any of that in the video... they looked out of control to me.

Why do you need 4+ people to arrest one person? "Targeted" implies "efficient".... which is not what I saw in that video.

You claimed these arrests are "targeted"... the video that you just shared shows an arrest that clearly isn't targeted in any way shape or form. If it was "targeted" there wouldn't be 4+ of them there beating up on a single food delivery driver.

Ahh yes, clearly the only two options are "wide indiscriminate dragnet that sweeps people up and asks questions later" and "not enforcing any immigration law". No in-between, nosiree lol

I did see the video. I stand by my comments.

Yep.... it never really gets addressed whenever this topic comes up, and it really should.

I guess I'm unclear why it's anybody else's job other than *yours* to back up *your* argument. It's not *my* job to prove *you* right. Anybody who has ever sat through any high school level course should be able to understand this. The fact that you seem more than willing to make claims yet resist even the mildest suggestion of providing some sort of backup to said claims seems worthy of just dismissing said claims out of hand. 4+ federal officers descending on and beating the ever loving **** out of an unarmed food delivery driver looks like a lot of things... "targeted" isn't one of them.

Backing up your own argument seems like *your* homework... at least that's how homework worked at every level of school I attended lol

It would only take a few minutes of your time to back up your claim, yet you aren't doing it.... interesting.

It's worth remembering that ICE has detained actual American citizens during the course of conducting themselves this way. Every single time it happens is a failure and is unacceptable. And should be treated as such