2023 Detroit Tigers Spring Training Thread

[Tiger337]

 

 

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

But he (Vierling) has played 57 innings there, so, in a pinch, they can use him there.   I don't think they are expecting to give a young guy like Tork a lot of days off.     Greene, Tork, Javy are going to be your everyday guys, the rest of it is like Lee said,  mix & match, which is how AJ likes it.   

Versatility is great, I'd rather they have a lot of it than not. I just don't see them carrying one true infielder on the bench and having four LHH OFs. And given how they have distributed playing time during games this spring at the 1B position, I haven't seen much indications from the Tigers that they plan on leaning hard on alternative sources at that position. And regarding how "AJ likes it", he's said a lot of really positive things about both Nevin and Ibanez as well and seems to like those guys.

Either way, if we are looking at what the team is saying and some of the decisions they are making in regards to playing time during games this spring (because teams tell you what they think by the decisions they make on this front), they aren't signaling a likelihood to carry both Carpenter and Baddoo IMO. That's what I see, maybe what you see is something different.

[Tiger337]

They have a Hall of Fame back-up corner infielder!  

 

[gehringer_2]

27 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Either way, if we are looking at what the team is saying and some of the decisions they are making in regards to playing time during games this spring (because teams tell you what they think by the decisions they make on this front), they aren't signaling a likelihood to carry both Carpenter and Baddoo IMO. That's what I see, maybe what you see is something different.

while generally true, I don't put too much stock in ST playing time because it can sometimes be an ambiguous marker. Guys they are completely settled on may get less PT than guys on the bubble who may get the longest looks only to get cut in the end. And we don't have that much track record to read Hinch from either.

Edited March 16, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tigermojo]

They probably go the depth route to start the season. Anyone with options can be stashed at AAA. Guys without options make the team (Hernandez, Ibanez?) Have to protect against the inevitable injuries, Nevin and Vierling are already injured.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

They probably go the depth route to start the season. Anyone with options can be stashed at AAA. Guys without options make the team (Hernandez, Ibanez?) Have to protect against the inevitable injuries, Nevin and Vierling are already injured.

this would certainly jibe with past practice, though when Harris came on board his statements could reasonably have been taken to mean that philosophy would shift. But the reality is that once you are in the position making those decisions you become more susceptible to the same kinds of imperatives the guy you replaced was.

[casimir]

56 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think the Tigers are going to have traditional starter and bench roles this year.  They are going to have a lot of multi-position players moving around the field and the Toledo shuttle is going to be busy.  They have enough players who can play 1B and 3B even if they keep Carpenter and Baddoo.  

For the most part.  Baez, Greene, Torkelson, and MeadowsA are probably starting everyday heading out of camp.  Ignoring C, that leaves 3 defensive positions and DH to fill from among 13 position players on the roster - the 4 starters mentioned above - 2 catchers = 7 players. 

One of those bodies will be Cabrera, and we know his limitations, but let's be generous and call him an everyday DH to begin the season.  They're down to 3 defensive positions from among 6 players.

It seems likely that Maton and Vierling are making the club.  A LHH IF (that can cover all IF spots) and a RHH OF (that can cover all OF spots) are fits for the above.  Now, whether they play everyday or not, that's another question.  I think it stands to reason that at least they get playing time in a traditional platoon play, Maton vs RHPs (likely at 3B) and Vierling vs LHPs (could be any OF position).  Down to 4 players.

Let's say Schoop makes the team.  He's the starting 2B, at least for April.  Down to 3 players needed. 

10 position players on the roster, technically each starting spot could be filled and there's a backup C.  And if they go with Rogers as the backup C, that probably allows more LF team for Haase, which would factor into things a little.

So, while starting spots are technically covered, there's still Cabrera included as an everyday starter, which seems a stretch.  They could throw anyone into that DH role to give Cabrera a day off, but who backfills that defensive position.

Baddoo and Carpenter aren't very versatile defensively.  Carpenter seems to be relegated to poor fielding LF.  Baddoo has lesser fielding foibles, but his arm shouldn't be in RF.  I guess with Vierling on the roster they could use him in RF to spell MeadowsA, so maybe that isn't an issue.  But if they both make the roster, that leaves only one spot for a backup IF.  That seems a little thin, although with Maton being able to move around, maybe not so much.

Ultimately, I think where I am going is that the roster might not be deep enough for it to carry all three of Cabrera, Baddoo, and Carpenter at the same time.  I do think there will be a constant shuttle from Detroit to Toledo involving pitchers based on availability and usage and performance.  I'm not so sure we see that with position players, although maybe they intertwine at times when the schedule allows (going from 13 pitchers to 12 pitchers to add another position player for a spell).

I don't know.  There's still 2 weeks to go.  Still time for a trade (seems unlikely) or for an injury (not rooting for it) to factor into this.

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 

 

What the balk is going on here?? Is it 1988 already?

[mtutiger]

36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

while generally true, I don't put too much stock in ST playing time because it can sometimes be an ambiguous marker. Guys they are completely settled on may get less PT than guys on the bubble who may get the longest looks only to get cut in the end. And we don't have that much track record to read Hinch from either.

No question.... but ST playing time, and how players are being stationed in the field, is probably the best piece of evidence that we have in regards to the Tigers thinking at this point, along with the words of the people in charge (ie. AJ). 

And neither piece really shows much evidence that Carpenter and Baddoo are likely to both make it.

[Motor City Sonics]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

What the balk is going on here?? Is it 1988 already?

Isn't that how they define a pitch clock violation? 

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Isn't that how they define a pitch clock violation? 

Yes, I believe it's the pitch clock which is something to which they will learn to adjust.  The increase in stolen bases intrigues me the most.  

[chasfh]

Just now, Motor City Sonics said:

Isn't that how they define a pitch clock violation? 

I don't think so. Does a runner advance on pitch clock violation?

When I saw the Tigers and Orioles in Sarasota on Monday, de Jesus got called for balks three times in a single inning, all of them sending runners from second to third. None of them were either a pitch clock violation or a botched third disengagement. Umpires are just being much harder on deceptive motions, which is a big change this year no one is talking about yet.

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, casimir said:

It seems likely that Maton and Vierling are making the club.  A LHH IF (that can cover all IF spots) and a RHH OF (that can cover all OF spots) are fits for the above.  Now, whether they play everyday or not, that's another question.  I think it stands to reason that at least they get playing time in a traditional platoon play, Maton vs RHPs (likely at 3B) and Vierling vs LHPs (could be any OF position).  Down to 4 players. factor into this.

As an aside, I tend to believe that Vierling isn't going to be a pure platoon - he'll get some looks against RHPs as well. I think we are underselling him some.

Quote

That seems a little thin, although with Maton being able to move around, maybe not so much.

The thing about Maton is that while he's extremely versatile, he will likely be the only serviceable backup to Baez as well.... Baez will play most days, but he will get days off here and there, so if Maton has to cover SS, or if Baez has to cover 2B and Maton SS, it would help from a versatility standpoint to have a second utility IF as opposed to dedicating that spot to a second LHH OF

Edited March 16, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don't think so. Does a runner advance on pitch clock violation?

 

Yes, that was my mistake.  

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

And neither piece really shows much evidence that Carpenter and Baddoo are likely to both make it.

For sure they don't much like Carpenter in the OF.  I could see them being perfectly happy to let him marinate in Toledo to verify the HR pop is still there, waiting to call him up to the DH spot when Cabrera inevitably goes to the DL.

Baddoo is such a bundle of contradictions. Could go any way with him I think but so far he hasn't done enough in this ST to force their hand. I expect to see him play a lot the rest of the way to give him a chance improve the 611 OPS of his first 30 AB.

[Motor City Sonics]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

For sure they don't much like Carpenter in the OF.  I could see them being perfectly happy to let him marinate in Toledo to verify the HR pop is still there, waiting to call him up to the DH spot when Cabrera inevitably goes to the DL.

Baddoo is such a bundle of contradictions. Could go any way with him I think but so far he hasn't done enough in this ST to force their hand. I expect to see him play a lot the rest of the way to give him a chance improve the 611 OPS of his first 30 AB.

It might be a good idea to have Kerry play some 1b in the minors.  It would increase his value if he could just be adequate there.  

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It might be a good idea to have Kerry play some 1b in the minors.  It would increase his value if he could just be adequate there.  

Interestingly enough, with Lester gone, there don't appear to be any pure 1b on the Toledo roster right now....

[RatkoVarda]

Quincy Nieporte was Eastern League MVP - I would think that would earn him a promotion to Tol even though he he is not really a prospect                                    

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Interestingly enough, with Lester gone, there don't appear to be any pure 1b on the Toledo roster right now....

That's bugged me for awhile.   All those years of draft picks and Avila couldn't come up with any except the obvioius #1 pick?     A neon sign that points to his incompetence.  

 

 

[SoCalTiger]

Is there dead weight on the 40 to add non roster players like Hernandez to the team ?

[Motor City Sonics]

I find it interesting that coming off a season with the worst offense we can remember that we're debating the 5th OF and Utility Man positions and that's it.      Feels like they shouldn't have so many spots sewn up, as bad as they were.    

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Motor City Sonics said:

I find it interesting that coming off a season with the worst offense we can remember that we're debating the 5th OF and Utility Man positions and that's it.      Feels like they shouldn't have so many spots sewn up, as bad as they were.    

True, they did not make a single MLB starting bat acquisition. Now I suppose you can read that as meaning that Harris is more optimistic about the talent Avila left him (e.g. Green, Torkelson, Meadows(s)) than we are. Or that's he's writing off 2023. The latter take being the more widespread reading.

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Quincy Nieporte was Eastern League MVP - I would think that would earn him a promotion to Tol even though he he is not really a prospect                                    

Of course Carpenter isn't exactly young either.

[casimir]

23 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

As an aside, I tend to believe that Vierling isn't going to be a pure platoon - he'll get some looks against RHPs as well. I think we are underselling him some.

The thing about Maton is that while he's extremely versatile, he will likely be the only serviceable backup to Baez as well.... Baez will play most days, but he will get days off here and there, so if Maton has to cover SS, or if Baez has to cover 2B and Maton SS, it would help from a versatility standpoint to have a second utility IF as opposed to dedicating that spot to a second LHH OF

I agree with you on both.  I kind of went with the floor for Vierling as a platoon OF vs LHPs and left it there.  I think he'll be used more, certainly as a defensive replacement for Baddoo/Carpenter when necessary.  I had forgotten that he was injured and don't recall the outlook.  That sucks.

As far as the IF, I wouldn't be shocked if Schoop were released based on poor spring training performance.  It's a shame, he came into camp in really improved shape, and it'd be nice to see him bounce back at the plate and show that last season's defense wasn't a fluke (although I suspect it was helped a lot by the shift and his arm).  But I assume he makes the team although I don't think he really adds to the versatility that is needed.

This team needs Tony Phillips.

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Is there dead weight on the 40 to add non roster players like Hernandez to the team ?

Not nearly as much as past years, but they do have one spot which will open up assuming Skubal goes on the 60-day IL.