Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[smr-nj]

7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

He borrowed from a friend in Wisconsin which was registered and legal to do. The media has really spoon fed misinformation during this case. One of the alarming side effects of this social media era we are in. 

Actually, the kid’s own story was that his friend (or was it his cousin?)Bought the gun -  Kyle gave him the money for it … but the friend was keeping it at his house until he turned 18 the next year.

 I can smell the bullshit in that story from here in Jersey.

[mtutiger]

22 minutes ago, Archie said:

I'm sure someone somewhere questions the Chauvin verdict, but the overwhelming majority agrees with it.  I think most trials are like that.  There will always be someone who disagrees with it. 

The only problem with the Chauvin jury is the one guy who lied about his involvement in protests and such during selection.  After the trial was over pictures of him were found at protests and wearing a shirt with a saying supporting BLM or so something like that.  That guy should face charges for lying during selection.  I also think there are appeals over the trial and that could have an impact on those appeals.

I'll bet at least 1/3 Americans disagree with that verdict... that's what the polls said at the time iirc. That's not a an insignificant amount of people at all.

Also, there were zero problems with the Chauvin jury and there were zero problems with the Rittenhouse jury. I'm not sure why we have to do this "I agree with their decision, but..." bs... just admit it and move on.

Edited November 20, 2021 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Twenty-year-olds are considered not yet mature enough to rent a car, but sure, seventeen-year-olds definitely have the prefrontal cortex maturity to patrol crowded streets armed with a live semiautomatic rifle, right? After all, as you imply, it’s totally legal for minor children to wave semiautomatic weapons around in public. Do I have you straight on this?

Well, I guess, but you see to be arguing what a law should be, not what it is.   A gun alone, is not a threat, that's all i'm saying about that.  In Kenosha, a 16 year old or older, with a gun, is legal.  I'm not trying to argue if it should/shouldn't be.  

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Also, why wouldn’t you let your 17-year-old patrol the streets of your town with a semiautomatic rifle? Are you saying your kid is dumber than Kyle Rittenhouse? 😜

Note, if rioters were destroying my town, or a larger neighboring town that is part of my community, I'd want my 17 year old to want to go down and try and do something helpful to keep it from happening or help.  I also would hope that he'd understand that it's not a safe place to be and that even if it was legal to do so, he likely isn't ready to deal with that situation. Additionally, it's dangerous, as we learned with Kenosha where if we follow the narrative of the left, he randomly shot three people.  Yet, those random shootings he got a guy that rapes kids, another that assaulted his grandmother and choked his brother, and a third that was illegally carrying a gun.   Just not a safe place at all.

[Motown Bombers]

When I was 17 I was living in the city of Detroit and my parents would not want me walking around the streets of Detroit at night with a semi-automatic. 

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Note, if rioters were destroying my town, or a larger neighboring town that is part of my community, I'd want my 17 year old to want to go down and try and do something helpful to keep it from happening or help.  

Ehh. I get that he has family in Kenosha which changes things, but I really don't buy the "Antioch being part of the Kenosha community" line. I just don't.

I lived a few months in a town adjacent to Antioch and, iirc, generally people tended to congregate more in Gurnee, Crystal Lake or McHenry.

Again, not saying there weren't family reasons for his connections to Kenosha, but I just don't buy that particular line.

Edited November 20, 2021 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Ehh. I get that he has family in Kenosha which changes things, but I really don't buy the "Antioch being part of the Kenosha community" line. I just don't.

I lived a few months in a town adjacent to Antioch and, iirc, generally people tended to congregate more in Gurnee, Crystal Lake or McHenry.

Again, not saying there weren't family reasons for his connections to Kenosha, but I just don't buy that particular line.

It's only 20 miles apart, plus his dad, not just other family lived there, which means he may have lived there if there was split custody.  He also worked there.  He had ties to that community even if most people in Antioch go to Gurnee, Crystal Lake, or McHenry, everything appears that Rittenhouse went to Kinosha.  

 

 

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, ewsieg said:

It's only 20 miles apart, plus his dad, not just other family lived there, which means he may have lived there if there was split custody.  He also worked there.  He had ties to that community even if most people in Antioch go to Gurnee, Crystal Lake, or McHenry, everything appears that Rittenhouse went to Kinosha.  

 

 

I get that he has family connections to Kenosha. As I said, that changes things.

But people just shorthand saying Antioch is basically a suburb of Kenosha just grates on me because, pre-Rittenhouse, nobody would have ever said that. In the grand scheme, it doesn't matter much, but I just don't think that, separated from the Rittenhouse case, it's a factual statement.

[ewsieg]

17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

When I was 17 I was living in the city of Detroit and my parents would not want me walking around the streets of Detroit at night with a semi-automatic. 

I suspect this is in response to my post.  If so, maybe I wasn't clear.  I'm not saying I'd want that, but I would want him to have that feeling that he should help if his community was in need.  Him cleaning up graffiti during the day, great thing; him carrying a gun at night, stupid.

[Archie]

31 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'll bet at least 1/3 Americans disagree with that verdict... that's what the polls said at the time iirc. That's not a an insignificant amount of people at all.

Also, there were zero problems with the Chauvin jury and there were zero problems with the Rittenhouse jury. I'm not sure why we have to do this "I agree with their decision, but..." bs... just admit it and move on.

You're jumping to conclusions...The Chauvin verdict wouldn't have been any different if that guy wasn't on it.  That trial was as obvious as the Rittenhouse trial if not more. However a guy lied to be on jury so yes there was a problem.  I haven't heard anymore on this or if there is an appeal involving it.  The guy should face charges for lying so he wouldn't be disqualified from selection.  He probably lied so he could do justice but in the end he might be the reason the verdict would be overturned and a new trial granted.  Even if that was to happen I wouldn't expect a different verdict.   

[chasfh]

29 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Well, I guess, but you see to be arguing what a law should be, not what it is.   A gun alone, is not a threat, that's all i'm saying about that.  In Kenosha, a 16 year old or older, with a gun, is legal.  I'm not trying to argue if it should/shouldn't be. 

Yes, I am arguing what the law should be, because a self-appointed superhero vigilante waving a semiautomatic rifle in a volatile crowd is a threat, and people will die. Because of the law, others will be emboldened, this will happen again multiple times, and you can celebrate liberty in America all you want.

Also, I know guns don’t kill people. People with guns kill people.

[ewsieg]

For those saying Rittenhouse has a case for defamation, note that the public/media is allowed to report what the DA has said.  Claims he illegally was carrying a gun, or that he instigated the shooting with Rosenbaum, despite the only evidence being multiple eye witness and video that contradicted that statement , all came from the DA.  

Addressing and maybe finding some way to hold prosecutors accountable could benefit everyone, and likely disproportionally benefit minorities as well.

Edit: Addressing lazy journalism might be another.

Edited November 20, 2021 by ewsieg

[ewsieg]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yes, I am arguing what the law should be, because a self-appointed superhero vigilante waving a semiautomatic rifle in a volatile crowd is a threat, and people will die. Because of the law, others will be emboldened, this will happen again multiple times, and you can celebrate liberty in America all you want.

Also, I know guns don’t kill people. People with guns kill people.

I would support some sort of law that would prevent kids from going into hostile situations with guns.  But why do you have to lie about this case (waving a gun)?

 

[Motown Bombers]

Was there a curfew in place in Kenosha due to the protest? I feel like he violated something and just can't believe a member of the Trump Youth can walk around with a gun slung around their shoulder. 

[buddha]

why does the nba social justice director feel the need to issue a statement on this verdict?

[Motown Bombers]

14 minutes ago, buddha said:

why does the nba social justice director feel the need to issue a statement on this verdict?

White kid killing white people seems like the exact sort of thing the NBA should be concerned about. 

[Tigeraholic1]

5 hours ago, mtutiger said:

 

I dont love what Rittenhouse did. He really didn't have to be there that night. But I really can't argue with the ultimate result here. And my takeaway is a lot like Buddha's in that the real travesty isn't this ruling, its that it reinforces that there is an unevenness to reasonable doubt and how it is afforded to certain Americans.

I know not all cases are treated equal but what about Timothy George Simpkins? Black student in Texas who took a gun to school and shoots three people. Was released on $75,000 bond while Rittenhouse bond was set at 2 Million.

[buddha]

8 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I know not all cases are treated equal but what about Timothy George Simpkins? Black student in Texas who took a gun to school and shoots three people. Was released on $75,000 bond while Rittenhouse bond was set at 2 Million.

the idea that black people are treated more harshly in the justice system is borne out by the numbers.  the idea that they are ALWAYS treated more harshly is not true.

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Was there a curfew in place in Kenosha due to the protest? I feel like he violated something and just can't believe a member of the Trump Youth can walk around with a gun slung around their shoulder. 

There was, it had since been ruled as unlawful. I am not aware of anyone else being arrested for it, so singling out a guy because he’s lawfully carrying a gun and it’s scary to some doesn’t seem right either. 

40 minutes ago, buddha said:

why does the nba social justice director feel the need to issue a statement on this verdict?

Because they prefer to focus on this rather than join the athletic community in asking about that Chinese tennis player?

4 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I know not all cases are treated equal but what about Timothy George Simpkins? Black student in Texas who took a gun to school and shoots three people. Was released on $75,000 bond while Rittenhouse bond was set at 2 Million.

The little I know about that, it’s surprising.  That said, all these cases that have been brought up in this thread are different, thus treated differently.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

It's only 20 miles apart, plus his dad, not just other family lived there, which means he may have lived there if there was split custody.  He also worked there.  He had ties to that community even if most people in Antioch go to Gurnee, Crystal Lake, or McHenry, everything appears that Rittenhouse went to Kinosha.  

 

 

well maybe. But 20 miles is a long way in a city. Transpose that to Detroit and it puts me in Eastpoint if I lived in Brightmoor. A rough analogy but that's not exactly around the house! 

[mtutiger]

53 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I know not all cases are treated equal but what about Timothy George Simpkins? Black student in Texas who took a gun to school and shoots three people. Was released on $75,000 bond while Rittenhouse bond was set at 2 Million.

As I said believe I said at the time, you'll have to take that up with Texas law for how the charge is adjudicated. Just as Wisconsin law dictates in the case of Kyle Rittenhouse 

Edited November 20, 2021 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well maybe. But 20 miles is a long way in a city. Transpose that to Detroit and it puts me in Eastpoint if I lived in Brightmoor. A rough analogy but that's not exactly around the house! 

Miles away is all subjective.  I used to work 13 miles from home and I considered it close as it took me 15 minutes to get to work.  I moved to metro Detroit and got an apartment 8 miles from work and only after the first week did I realize the mistake I made to love that far away.

[mtutiger]

31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well maybe. But 20 miles is a long way in a city. Transpose that to Detroit and it puts me in Eastpoint if I lived in Brightmoor. A rough analogy but that's not exactly around the house! 

I guess what I'm suggesting is that for most people who live in that part of Lake County, IL, the relationship with Kenosha isn't all that close. Akin to the fact that, despite Waxahachie is about 20 miles away from where I live in Texas, people consider it distinct from our community.

Now that may be different for Rittenhouse personally because of his family... but if you asked most people pre-Rittenhouse if they considered Antioch to be the same community as Kenosha, based on my experience, they wouldn't have.

[Archie]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

For those saying Rittenhouse has a case for defamation, note that the public/media is allowed to report what the DA has said.  Claims he illegally was carrying a gun, or that he instigated the shooting with Rosenbaum, despite the only evidence being multiple eye witness and video that contradicted that statement , all came from the DA.  

Addressing and maybe finding some way to hold prosecutors accountable could benefit everyone, and likely disproportionally benefit minorities as well.

Edit: Addressing lazy journalism might be another.

My comments are based on what the media and Biden (and other politicians) said before the trial.  Biden and others had no basis for calling him white supremist or racist and only inflamed the situation.  When did innocent until proven guilty end in the US? 

[ewsieg]

6 hours ago, smr-nj said:

Actually, the kid’s own story was that his friend (or was it his cousin?)Bought the gun -  Kyle gave him the money for it … but the friend was keeping it at his house until he turned 18 the next year.

 I can smell the bullshit in that story from here in Jersey.

Just wondering, why does that smell like BS to you and is there a specific idea on why Rittenhouse would lie about that?

I ask as honestly when I heard that testimony, I assumed he was admitting guilt to a lesser crime, but apparently what he did wasn’t illegal, somewhat surprising to me.  
 

If he wanted to keep the narrative that he was squeaky clean, I would have expected him to say he borrowed the gun from his buddy and never mentioned the verbal agreement between them.  He testified he knew he was legal to possess at his age.  The gun was registered to his friend, that would have been easier to say and extremely tough to prove, in fact, would it even have been questioned?

 

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, ewsieg said:

I would support some sort of law that would prevent kids from going into hostile situations with guns.  But why do you have to lie about this case (waving a gun)?

 

I'm not lying.