Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Tiger337]

Getting back to the guns, the Arbery case was totally different from the Rittenhouse case.  If that was not murder, then there would have been riots worse than 2020.  The Rittenhouse case was much more complex.  However, half the country celebrating Rittenhouse as a vigilante hero is frightening.  That is more of a gun control issue than a race issue, although vigilantism going mainstream would disproportionately affect non-white people.  

[pfife]

Just so I get this straight, there was no peace between Israel and UAE pre-Trump?  Really?  I believe he said that had NEVER been done before.  Really?

Edited November 25, 2021 by pfife

[pfife]

Not finding much information on this Israel vs. UAE war, anyone help?  This article literally says they were never at war

Quote

t is by now almost a formality: In the Middle East, nothing either good or bad can transpire without Washington pointing to Tehran’s alleged hegemonic designs as the force behind it. So it was with the so-called peace deal announced last week between Israel and the United Arab Emirates; two countries who were never at war declared peace, and the Trump administration—along with much of Washington—quickly deemed it historic. 

https://newrepublic.com/article/159010/trump-israel-iran-mideast-forever-war

 

[pfife]

6 hours ago, Archie said:

 You are just afraid to say Trump did something good because you hate him so much. While in office Trump not only calmed the threat of NK, he also got peace in the mid east between Israel and UAE.  That's never been done before and he deserves a lot of credit for it.  But go ahead and keep on touting good ole Joe who hasn't done anything of note while in office for 48 years.  Joe should at least give Don a call and ask him how to fix the disaster he created on the southern border.

LMAO.  Only facts.  Only facts. 

That you hunt and peck that and call someone else uninformed or a troll is hilarious chief

Edited November 25, 2021 by pfife

[pfife]

Hey Arch when's mexico gonna pay for the wall?

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, pfife said:

Not finding much information on this Israel vs. UAE war, anyone help?  This article literally says they were never at war

https://newrepublic.com/article/159010/trump-israel-iran-mideast-forever-war

 

He wasn't lying.  A peace agreement between two countries never at war has never happened before. 

[pfife]

Republicans are incredible.   Of course they can turn a CSPAN segment on 3 murderers of Ahmad Arbury into a talk about 50k black on black murders last year in 3 cities.

Yes thats 50k murders. 

There were 21k total murders last year.  So yes now instead of talking about an actual murder were listening to someone talk about a bunch of fake murders that never happened.   Screw them.

[mtutiger]

23 minutes ago, pfife said:

Republicans are incredible.   Of course they can turn a CSPAN segment on 3 murderers of Ahmad Arbury into a talk about 50k black on black murders last year in 3 cities.

Yes thats 50k murders. 

There were 21k total murders last year.  So yes now instead of talking about an actual murder were listening to someone talk about a bunch of fake murders that never happened.   Screw them.

Never let facts get in the way of political point scoring!

[pfife]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Never let facts get in the way of political point scoring!

Sincerely, UAE/Israel Wars I,II,III, and IV

[Archie]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Getting back to the guns, the Arbery case was totally different from the Rittenhouse case.  If that was not murder, then there would have been riots worse than 2020.  The Rittenhouse case was much more complex.  However, half the country celebrating Rittenhouse as a vigilante hero is frightening.  That is more of a gun control issue than a race issue, although vigilantism going mainstream would disproportionately affect non-white people.  

As much as the cases were different they were alike with two different sides of the self defense argument.  I think if things were reversed, if Arbery would have been able to shoot/kill the three guys he would have a very good case for self defense much as Rittenhouse had.  It also wouldn't have taken 70+ days for the prosecutor to charge him murder though.  Same goes for Rittenhouse, if the three guys would have killed him they would have had a good case for murder.  For some reason I doubt they would have been charged.  Both cases had political motivations and biases that was just wrong.

[Archie]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.  I hope you all have a nice day.

[ewsieg]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:47 PM, Tiger337 said:

Getting back to the guns, the Arbery case was totally different from the Rittenhouse case.  If that was not murder, then there would have been riots worse than 2020.  The Rittenhouse case was much more complex.  However, half the country celebrating Rittenhouse as a vigilante hero is frightening.  That is more of a gun control issue than a race issue, although vigilantism going mainstream would disproportionately affect non-white people.  

I'd argue that narrative of the story allowed the facts to come out in the national media before the other, that's the main difference between them, not that one is more complex than the other.

With Arbery, you saw the video, in which you could tell Arbery was trying to avoid and run past before finally engaging.  You also learned they pursued him for awhile before eventually driving past him and trying to force him to stop.  You also learned that the reason for him being stopped was under question as he might have just been jogging while black.  To the average news watcher, it didn't seem complex.  When the facts came out, everything minus that fact that he was trespassing proved to be correct, and even the trespassing is something that many people have done with new homes under construction in a neighborhood. 

With Kenosha, you saw a video of a bag being thrown, and then you could tell there were some shots.  You were told a kid shot a BLM protester because a plastic bag was thrown at him.  Then as he fled, he shot two more people.  Then you heard his mom took him there, crossed state lines, had an illegal gun.  Cops just let him go home and before the trial started, you heard how he did horrible things like the OK sign.   Just like the Arbery case, another clear cut case, right?

Unfortunately for the narrative, the trial of Rittenhouse proved to confirm he didn't violate any gun laws, even if some folks don't agree with them.  In fact they showed how a DA is willing to charge him with things that weren't even illegal (gun charge).  As the additional video's and facts came out, it became clear what should be done from a legal standpoint, just like the Arbery case.

[Tiger337]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:20 AM, pfife said:

Sincerely, UAE/Israel Wars I,II,III, and IV

When did those happen?  Israel has been in a lot of wars, but I can't find any wars between Israel and UAE.  The agreements between Israel and UAE/Bahrain were not peace agreements.  It was a military agreement where they would join forces against Iran.  There was nothing historic about it.  That was just the usual Trump doing something insignificant and trying to build it into something historic.  You guys fell for it again.  

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

I'd argue that narrative of the story allowed the facts to come out in the national media before the other, that's the main difference between them, not that one is more complex than the other.

With Arbery, you saw the video, in which you could tell Arbery was trying to avoid and run past before finally engaging.  You also learned they pursued him for awhile before eventually driving past him and trying to force him to stop.  You also learned that the reason for him being stopped was under question as he might have just been jogging while black.  To the average news watcher, it didn't seem complex.  When the facts came out, everything minus that fact that he was trespassing proved to be correct, and even the trespassing is something that many people have done with new homes under construction in a neighborhood. 

With Kenosha, you saw a video of a bag being thrown, and then you could tell there were some shots.  You were told a kid shot a BLM protester because a plastic bag was thrown at him.  Then as he fled, he shot two more people.  Then you heard his mom took him there, crossed state lines, had an illegal gun.  Cops just let him go home and before the trial started, you heard how he did horrible things like the OK sign.   Just like the Arbery case, another clear cut case, right?

Unfortunately for the narrative, the trial of Rittenhouse proved to confirm he didn't violate any gun laws, even if some folks don't agree with them.  In fact they showed how a DA is willing to charge him with things that weren't even illegal (gun charge).  As the additional video's and facts came out, it became clear what should be done from a legal standpoint, just like the Arbery case.

So, Rittenhouse did nothing wrong legally and Arbery's killers committed obvious murder.  Rittenhouse shot his pursuers in self defense (in the moment) while  Arbery did not threaten his murderers.  That seems pretty different to me.  

And yes, I do think our gun laws and people's attitudes about them suck.  I am horrified that we allow vigilantism and that people are celebrated for it.  That sounds like something that would happen in a third world country.  

[Archie]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

So, Rittenhouse did nothing wrong legally and Arbery's killers committed obvious murder.  Rittenhouse shot his pursuers in self defense (in the moment) while  Arbery did not threaten his murderers.  That seems pretty different to me.  

And yes, I do think our gun laws and people's attitudes about them suck.  I am horrified that we allow vigilantism and that people are celebrated for it.  That sounds like something that would happen in a third world country.  

Rittenhouse isn't a vigilante.  He was guy that defended himself after being attacked.  Unfortunately Arbery was not able to fend off his attackers.  Had he been able to and killed any of his attackers he also would have a good case of self defense. 

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, Archie said:

Rittenhouse isn't a vigilante.  He was guy that defended himself after being attacked.  Unfortunately Arbery was not able to fend off his attackers.  Had he been able to and killed any of his attackers he also would have a good case of self defense. 

Rittenhouse went there to protect people (one of his stories).  That is vigilantism.  He just wasn't very good at it and he got himself into a situation where he had to protect himself.  Now, he's a hero.  

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Rittenhouse went there to protect people (one of his stories).  That is vigilantism.  He just wasn't very good at it and he got himself into a situation where he had to protect himself.  Now, he's a hero.  

 

that seems to be the meme in the US, celebrating incompetence and failure - look at Trump!

OTOH, you could say the left has itself at least partially to blame for that particular excess on the part of the right, as it was the left that first started equating all success with exploitation.

[Archie]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Rittenhouse went there to protect people (one of his stories).  That is vigilantism.  He just wasn't very good at it and he got himself into a situation where he had to protect himself.  Now, he's a hero.  

 

I had read that he was protecting a friends business.  Walking the streets and playing policeman would be a vigilante.  I don't think it would be considered that if he was protecting a friends property.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

WDIV: 4-6 People Shot at Oxford High School

I hope that no one here has a son, daughter, or relative at Oxford High School.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad

[MichiganCardinal]

Hitting close to home today.

 

[Motor City Sonics]

My girlfriend is a teacher at Lake Orion High and they have what they call a "Code Yellow".  I think that means that everyone stays in the classrooms they are in until further notice.    

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Thoughts and prayers aren't going to cut it. But I'm sure we'll get lots of bullshit, empty calls for thoughts and prayers and talk about how it's "too early to talk about political action" and how "democrats are trying to politicize another mass shooting." Fuck off to any politician who says that.

[Motor City Sonics]

Remember when it was "meet me behind the school at 3?"   Not the best solution, but a whole lot better than this garbage. 

[oblong]

Sheriff says now that 3 are deceased, believed to be students.  A teacher was shot too.

 

[Motor City Sonics]

At least 3 fatalities.    Fuck.    

 

AND WE'LL DO NOTHING.  NOT A GOD DAMNED THING