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Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events


Tigerbomb13

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7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

i think as long as there is an illegal black market there will be violent crime.  that activity will be filled by mostly poor, uneducated people on the margins of society as it always has.

i expect it has more to do with america's massive market for illegal drugs and the way we have chosen to police that market.  how many poor people are killed trying to run liquor into america?  not many anymore.

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22 minutes ago, buddha said:

i think as long as there is an illegal black market there will be violent crime.  that activity will be filled by mostly poor, uneducated people on the margins of society as it always has.

i expect it has more to do with america's massive market for illegal drugs and the way we have chosen to police that market.  how many poor people are killed trying to run liquor into america?  not many anymore.

I agree drugs are a massive problem.  We saw what happened when we made drugs essentially legal during the oxycontin epidemic though - Death by overdose, rather than guns.  Now, that epidemic is feeding the epidemic of illegal drugs.    

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51 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

I agree with everything you are saying. I also feel a HUGE problem in the Black community is a lack of a family structure. I would be interested to see the stats of married families or at the very least the amount mother and father homes. I bet the number is extremly low. Compare that to black families in the 60-70's I bet it's night and day. 

 

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1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

I question how many of the middle American addicts created by prescription would ever  have gone down that road had they been prescribed 800mg caplets of Motrin for whatever immediate ailment took them to their script happy doctors. Yes there had been a general economic turn down out in the sub/sub urban US but I have trouble envisioning the majority of these people would have sought out opiates on the black market. That would be a ton of cultural inhibition to overcome, at least until already addicted.  I think without the boot strap of easy prescriptions those looking to deaden their mental pain would have been far more likely to have turned to alcohol. Now whether that would have killed as many as opiates in the end is still a fair question. And if it had been alcohol it would have been all that much harder to discern it happening as well.

I've been hoping for data to start emerging that the legalization of marijauna in so many places is having some positive impact on the rate of addition to harder things, and/or the economics of the black drug markets, but haven't yet.

Edited by gehringer_2
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8 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I agree with everything you are saying. I also feel a HUGE problem in the Black community is a lack of a family structure. I would be interested to see the stats of married families or at the very least the amount mother and father homes. I bet the number is extremly low. Compare that to black families in the 60-70's I bet it's night and day. 

 

marriage has collapsed in the US among lower socio-economic groups among both blacks and whites.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-marriage-divide-how-and-why-working-class-families-are-more-fragile-today

Edited by gehringer_2
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14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

Four middle class white kids were just killed in Oxford and it isn't going to change anything, just like a dozen or so middle class white kids in Colorado and Connecticut. 

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Four middle class white kids were just killed in Oxford and it isn't going to change anything, just like a dozen or so middle class white kids in Colorado and Connecticut. 

That's true but not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was more along the line that if the black on black crime happening in the US were black on middle class white, it wouldn't be happening and if that included gun control, then gun control would have happened.

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4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

That's true but not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was more along the line that if the black on black crime happening in the US were black on middle class white, it wouldn't be happening and if that included gun control, then gun control would have happened.

I disagree. I think the Republicans would have used it to encourage more gun ownership. They could use that as an excuse to need more guns to defend themselves. 

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I disagree. I think the Republicans would have used it to encourage more gun ownership. They could use that as an excuse to need more guns to defend themselves. 

maybe.  to g2's point, reagan got all "gun controlly" after the black panthers showed up with guns.

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

This is also not the party of Reagan anymore. 

That is true. OTOH, I don't know if we should judge and/or project all politics by the current weird state we are in. It wasn't always like this, it may not always be like this. For instance will the children of this generation of gun owners add their parents guns to their own collections when mom and dad go into assisted living, or will they have them destroyed because they have no interest in them?

Buddha and I just came to different conclusions about whether the US is a regressing Culture or not. Whichever is true it probably won't stay the same as it is now. 

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50 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

marriage has collapsed in the US among lower socio-economic groups among both blacks and whites.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-marriage-divide-how-and-why-working-class-families-are-more-fragile-today

Yes, the fabric of our society is unraveling. I don't mean it as a religious thing either. Two income families goes a long way, dead beat Dad's everywhere.....

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1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

 

Maybe I should have gone there!  That is a good point.

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3 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Not deflecting, republicans will die on the gunz for all hill just as democrats will for abortions. There seems to be no give on either side. 

Oh, I didn't know we were horse trading. So when abortions are banned, then we get gun control? 

It's EXACTLY a deflection. You don't want to argue gun control, so you inject something else into it.

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