Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Tiger337]

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, buddha said:

i imagine poor.  why?

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Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

[buddha]

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:58 PM, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

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i think as long as there is an illegal black market there will be violent crime.  that activity will be filled by mostly poor, uneducated people on the margins of society as it always has.

i expect it has more to do with america's massive market for illegal drugs and the way we have chosen to police that market.  how many poor people are killed trying to run liquor into america?  not many anymore.

[Tiger337]

  On 12/6/2021 at 7:09 PM, buddha said:

i think as long as there is an illegal black market there will be violent crime.  that activity will be filled by mostly poor, uneducated people on the margins of society as it always has.

i expect it has more to do with america's massive market for illegal drugs and the way we have chosen to police that market.  how many poor people are killed trying to run liquor into america?  not many anymore.

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I agree drugs are a massive problem.  We saw what happened when we made drugs essentially legal during the oxycontin epidemic though - Death by overdose, rather than guns.  Now, that epidemic is feeding the epidemic of illegal drugs.    

[Motown Bombers]

Aren't there drugs in Canada? Why does Chicago have about 10 times as many murders as Toronto? 

[Tigeraholic1]

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:58 PM, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

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I agree with everything you are saying. I also feel a HUGE problem in the Black community is a lack of a family structure. I would be interested to see the stats of married families or at the very least the amount mother and father homes. I bet the number is extremly low. Compare that to black families in the 60-70's I bet it's night and day. 

 

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:58 PM, Tiger337 said:

Just trying to explain my original point that there is poverty behind violent crime.  I don't know the complexities of the Chicago problem, but violent crime in general would be reduced by less wealth disparity.  

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Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

I question how many of the middle American addicts created by prescription would ever  have gone down that road had they been prescribed 800mg caplets of Motrin for whatever immediate ailment took them to their script happy doctors. Yes there had been a general economic turn down out in the sub/sub urban US but I have trouble envisioning the majority of these people would have sought out opiates on the black market. That would be a ton of cultural inhibition to overcome, at least until already addicted.  I think without the boot strap of easy prescriptions those looking to deaden their mental pain would have been far more likely to have turned to alcohol. Now whether that would have killed as many as opiates in the end is still a fair question. And if it had been alcohol it would have been all that much harder to discern it happening as well.

I've been hoping for data to start emerging that the legalization of marijauna in so many places is having some positive impact on the rate of addition to harder things, and/or the economics of the black drug markets, but haven't yet.

Edited December 6, 2021 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/6/2021 at 7:53 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

I agree with everything you are saying. I also feel a HUGE problem in the Black community is a lack of a family structure. I would be interested to see the stats of married families or at the very least the amount mother and father homes. I bet the number is extremly low. Compare that to black families in the 60-70's I bet it's night and day. 

 

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marriage has collapsed in the US among lower socio-economic groups among both blacks and whites.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-marriage-divide-how-and-why-working-class-families-are-more-fragile-today

Edited December 6, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

At least Republicans want to force more single women to have babies. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:09 PM, Motown Bombers said:

At least Republicans want to force more single women to have babies. 

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✔️

[Motown Bombers]

  On 12/6/2021 at 7:55 PM, gehringer_2 said:

Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

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Four middle class white kids were just killed in Oxford and it isn't going to change anything, just like a dozen or so middle class white kids in Colorado and Connecticut. 

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:11 PM, Motown Bombers said:

Four middle class white kids were just killed in Oxford and it isn't going to change anything, just like a dozen or so middle class white kids in Colorado and Connecticut. 

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Massacred children are an appropriate price for unfettered access to firearms, apparently.

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:11 PM, Motown Bombers said:

Four middle class white kids were just killed in Oxford and it isn't going to change anything, just like a dozen or so middle class white kids in Colorado and Connecticut. 

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That's true but not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was more along the line that if the black on black crime happening in the US were black on middle class white, it wouldn't be happening and if that included gun control, then gun control would have happened.

[Motown Bombers]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:16 PM, gehringer_2 said:

That's true but not quite what I was trying to say. What I meant was more along the line that if the black on black crime happening in the US were black on middle class white, it wouldn't be happening and if that included gun control, then gun control would have happened.

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I disagree. I think the Republicans would have used it to encourage more gun ownership. They could use that as an excuse to need more guns to defend themselves. 

[buddha]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:22 PM, Motown Bombers said:

I disagree. I think the Republicans would have used it to encourage more gun ownership. They could use that as an excuse to need more guns to defend themselves. 

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maybe.  to g2's point, reagan got all "gun controlly" after the black panthers showed up with guns.

[Motown Bombers]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:27 PM, buddha said:

maybe.  to g2's point, reagan got all "gun controlly" after the black panthers showed up with guns.

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This is also not the party of Reagan anymore. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:39 PM, Motown Bombers said:

This is also not the party of Reagan anymore. 

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That is true. OTOH, I don't know if we should judge and/or project all politics by the current weird state we are in. It wasn't always like this, it may not always be like this. For instance will the children of this generation of gun owners add their parents guns to their own collections when mom and dad go into assisted living, or will they have them destroyed because they have no interest in them?

Buddha and I just came to different conclusions about whether the US is a regressing Culture or not. Whichever is true it probably won't stay the same as it is now. 

[Tigeraholic1]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:00 PM, gehringer_2 said:

marriage has collapsed in the US among lower socio-economic groups among both blacks and whites.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-marriage-divide-how-and-why-working-class-families-are-more-fragile-today

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Yes, the fabric of our society is unraveling. I don't mean it as a religious thing either. Two income families goes a long way, dead beat Dad's everywhere.....

[Tigeraholic1]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:09 PM, Motown Bombers said:

At least Republicans want to force more single women to have babies. 

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How about we as a society become more accountable? Dad's treating their kids like an unwanted dogs, walk out and never look back. I am all for birth control free and accesible for all.

[Tigeraholic1]

  On 12/6/2021 at 8:14 PM, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Massacred children are an appropriate price for unfettered access to Abortion, apparently.

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This too.

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

  On 12/6/2021 at 9:01 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

This too.

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Don't "fix" my post with that BS. Talk about a deflection...

[Tigeraholic1]

  On 12/6/2021 at 9:04 PM, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Don't "fix" my post with that BS. Talk about a deflection...

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Not deflecting, republicans will die on the gunz for all hill just as democrats will for abortions. There seems to be no give on either side. 

[Motown Bombers]

  On 12/6/2021 at 9:04 PM, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Don't "fix" my post with that BS. Talk about a deflection...

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He may be on to something. What if we call the kids who were killed at Oxford aborted children? Instead of saying they were killed, say they were aborted. Maybe that will change the narrative. 

[Tiger337]

  On 12/6/2021 at 7:55 PM, gehringer_2 said:

Haha - I thought your answer was going to be that if were middle class folk being shot in Chicago something would have changed be now - so I'll toss it out there anyway since you were going in a slightly different direction.

 

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Maybe I should have gone there!  That is a good point.

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

  On 12/6/2021 at 9:07 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

Not deflecting, republicans will die on the gunz for all hill just as democrats will for abortions. There seems to be no give on either side. 

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Oh, I didn't know we were horse trading. So when abortions are banned, then we get gun control? 

It's EXACTLY a deflection. You don't want to argue gun control, so you inject something else into it.

[Motown Bombers]

This is my congressman. Glad we're on the same page.