buddha Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 48 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: So looking at some of those numbers from that website, I decided to dig into the worst neighborhoods. Garfield Park had the highest total for 2021. I couldn't get an exact population since there seems to be an east and west so I went to Englewood which was second. Per wikipedia, the population is 24,000. That averages to about 250 murders per 100k. Illinois is averaging 257 COVID deaths per 100k. It seems if one is out of control than the other should be. Maybe crime isn't out of control in Chicago as a whole, which I disagree, but it certainly seems to be out of control in many neighborhoods. east garfield park is a shit hole. i wouldnt ride my bike through there or not be worried if my wife were walking around there at night if i were chas. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, buddha said: suffice to say, i dont agree with almost all of this post. lol. tater, you and i come from different perspectives. but we can both agree that america has a long history of racism that has created the structural disadvantages that help create the black-white inequality we see today. at least i think we can agree on that. 🙂 We can agree on that. 🙂 In the era of Trump though, I just refuse to call America a welcoming country anymore. Not that I think we really were in the first place. Hell, back in the 1910s, the Irish on my father's side of the family were told "Irish Need Not Apply" when immigrating to America and looking for opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, buddha said: east garfield park is a shit hole. i wouldnt ride my bike through there or not be worried if my wife were walking around there at night if i were chas. lol. I decided to do a Google Street view tour of East Garfield Park and even the little orange Google guy got shot and robbed. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Man, so much going on here ... 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: You seemed pretty convinced that the media created a false narrative that the crime was out of control. I didn't say this. You're making this up. 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I simply wanted to know if it isn't now, than when is it? At what point can the media say crime is out of control? They can say crime is out of control any time they want. Applying the phrase "out of control" is as much a narrative decision in service of their business as it is an objective reflection of reality. 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I understand you really don't want to answer it and will go in circles so I'll let you have at it. What are you talking about? I answered your question multiple times! I even gave you a number like you wanted! How can you say I'm still going around in circles! 😅 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: It seems like you have now begrudgingly accepted Chicago's murders are out of control. Well, as it turns out, the final number of murders in Chicago as reported by CPD was 797, which is less than 800, so, by the number I gave you, and that you appear to accept, Chicago's crime rate is not "out of control". 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I also provided you the exact calculation, it wasn't pulled out of my ear. You seem to be fine that hundreds of people are being killed in Chicago when comparable cities in the US aren't having such a problem. As long as you don't feel endangered though. I know where your calculation came from. I told you where it came from. 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: You seem to be fine that hundreds of people are being killed in Chicago when comparable cities in the US aren't having such a problem. As long as you don't feel endangered though. Now this statement looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty about something. I have no idea what I should be feeling guilty about. In the end, it occurs to me that the source of your frustration with me is that I don't view this through the same lens that you do, and you can't understand how that could even be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: Man, so much going on here ... I didn't say this. You're making this up. They can say crime is out of control any time they want. Applying the phrase "out of control" is as much a narrative decision in service of their business as it is an objective reflection of reality. What are you talking about? I answered your question multiple times! I even gave you a number like you wanted! How can you say I'm still going around in circles! 😅 Well, as it turns out, the final number of murders in Chicago as reported by CPD was 797, which is less than 800, so, by the number I gave you, and that you appear to accept, Chicago's crime rate is not "out of control". I know where your calculation came from. I told you where it came from. Now this statement looks like you're trying to make me feel guilty about something. I have no idea what I should be feeling guilty about. In the end, it occurs to me that the source of your frustration with me is that I don't view this through the same lens that you do, and you can't understand how that could even be possible. You made the insinuation the media is overhyping the crime being out of control. I'm still not clear on your definition of out of control is. It seems to be whether you personally feel comfortable or not. Everyone else outside of Chicago Police are reporting homicides over 800. I guess we can be relieved it's only 797 and at least 300 higher than any other city in the country and 300 higher than as recently as 2019. It's not about feeling guilt but about your seeming nonchalant attitude to what is clearly a serious issue in Chicago. Murders increasing by 60% in two years seems to be out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: east garfield park is a shit hole. i wouldnt ride my bike through there or not be worried if my wife were walking around there at night if i were chas. lol. Actually, I do ride my bike through there a lot in the summer! When the wind is coming in from the south to southeast, I'll ride over to California, down to Augusta, across to Sacramento, then down Sacramento straight through East Garfield and Douglass Park. Sacramento swings back out to California, I go past County, to 35th, all the way across to the lake, back up the lake to Fullerton, then down Lincoln Park West to Armitage, across to Racine, jot down to Cortland, pick up the 606 at Marshfield, then on home. It's a good ride. The only problem I have is how tore up the pavement is between County and 35th, mainly because the Stevenson comes through there and no one lives along there, so there's no money in it to fix it up around there. So gotta be careful for the tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Apparently the discrepancy is about people shot and killed on the expressways. "But that total count does not include people shot and killed in shootings on Chicago expressways, as they are the jurisdiction of the Illinois State Police. When that number is included the city reached at least 800 homicides, according to Tribune reporting in 2021." Chicago reached at least 800 homicides in 2021, a level not seen in 25 years - Chicago Tribune Holy shit, that means 39 people were whacked on the expressway. It's like when the Griswold's drove through St Louis. Roll em up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: You made the insinuation the media is overhyping the crime being out of control. I'm still not clear on your definition of out of control is. It seems to be whether you personally feel comfortable or not. Everyone else outside of Chicago Police are reporting homicides over 800. I guess we can be relieved it's only 797 and at least 300 higher than any other city in the country and 300 higher than as recently as 2019. It's not about feeling guilt but about your seeming nonchalant attitude to what is clearly a serious issue in Chicago. Murders increasing by 60% in two years seems to be out of control. I suppose I can see why you infer that I said that, although I didn't say that. My original point was that unless you see all this crime first-hand, which most people even in city of Chicago do not, then the only way to conclude that crime is out of control is that you're being told that it's out of control. It would be the media most people would hear such a thing from. Because I haven't seen crime first-hand, and because I haven't had to change anything about the way I live my life here due to crime, I don't perceive crime as being out of control. I suppose if I were to see a few instances of crime first-hand—a gang beating on the street, being in a store that gets held up, witnessing a shooting, getting car-jacked—that would change my perception of my vulnerability to crime here. And who knows, maybe that will happen sooner than later. But until then, I'm going to take the same precautions I have been for 25 years here, and not worry about it any more than I have. In the meantime, I don't agree that I should be made to feel guilty for not feeling freaked out by crime here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 What do St. Louis, Baltimore, Birmingham, Detroit, Dayton, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis, Cleveland, Richmond, Miami Gardens, Washington, North Charleston, Peoria, Philadelphia, Columbia, San Bernadino, Cincinnati, Columbus GA, Tuscaloosa, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Little Rock, Shreveport, Montgomery, and Buffalo all have in common? https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I haven't gotten COVID, no one in my immediate family has gotten COVID, then the only way to conclude that COVID is out of control is that I'm being told that it's out of control. It would be the media that I would hear such a thing from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I haven't gotten COVID, no one in my immediate family has gotten COVID, then the only way to conclude that COVID is out of control is that I'm being told that it's out of control. It would be the media that I would hear such a thing from. You seem to be fine that hundreds of thousands people are being killed in America when comparable countries in the world aren't having such a problem. As long as you don't feel endangered though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, chasfh said: What do St. Louis, Baltimore, Birmingham, Detroit, Dayton, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis, Cleveland, Richmond, Miami Gardens, Washington, North Charleston, Peoria, Philadelphia, Columbia, San Bernadino, Cincinnati, Columbus GA, Tuscaloosa, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Little Rock, Shreveport, Montgomery, and Buffalo all have in common? https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/ Their murder rates are all out of control? That link is also out dated. At 797 murders and a population of roughly 2.7 million, that should put Chicago's rate at around 29 per 100k, much higher than the 18 per 100k that article states. The likes of St Louis, Baltimore, Detroit and New Orleans are among the highest in the world. I lived in Detroit and was never shot so I guess it's only the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 48 minutes ago, chasfh said: Actually, I do ride my bike through there a lot in the summer! When the wind is coming in from the south to southeast, I'll ride over to California, down to Augusta, across to Sacramento, then down Sacramento straight through East Garfield and Douglass Park. Sacramento swings back out to California, I go past County, to 35th, all the way across to the lake, back up the lake to Fullerton, then down Lincoln Park West to Armitage, across to Racine, jot down to Cortland, pick up the 606 at Marshfield, then on home. It's a good ride. The only problem I have is how tore up the pavement is between County and 35th, mainly because the Stevenson comes through there and no one lives along there, so there's no money in it to fix it up around there. So gotta be careful for the tires. you're nuts. i hope you dont carry your wallet with you, or your phone. i had a claim on west madison once. some lady claimed she fell in a grocery store. i took 290 from napertucky and then came up a side street. nothing but vacant lots and burned out houses. lots of folks just walking around aimlessly in the middle of the day. lots of young males in white t shirts on corners. no thanks. reminded me of detroit, back in the day. lol. we went to the garfield conservatory for a wedding once. got sent down side streets. reminded me of watching the wire. lots of people hanging out on stoops, looking rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Let's set aside slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation for a minute and focus more on modern politics. If you do, you will still see that the United States is one of the least liberal countries of eastern/western democracies. The United States is super conservative economically and that is driven by a small percentage of very wealthy people who control the country. I think we are generally socially liberal compared to other countries in many respects. When we stray from that, it's done to protect the economic conservatism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, chasfh said: What do St. Louis, Baltimore, Birmingham, Detroit, Dayton, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis, Cleveland, Richmond, Miami Gardens, Washington, North Charleston, Peoria, Philadelphia, Columbia, San Bernadino, Cincinnati, Columbus GA, Tuscaloosa, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Little Rock, Shreveport, Montgomery, and Buffalo all have in common? https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/ oh, i'll play! what are "cities that don't have as many people killed as chicago"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2022/1/3/22858995/chicago-violence-dangerous-murders-per-capita-2021-2020-surge-garfield-park-police-lori-lightfoot neighborhoods like West Garfield Park — those with high levels of poverty and mostly minority residents — the level of violence has likely never been worse, according to data compiled by the University of Chicago Crime Lab and a Chicago Sun-Times analysis of city violence data. *** something for everyone in there. certainly not just a "scare white people" article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, buddha said: you're nuts. i hope you dont carry your wallet with you, or your phone. i had a claim on west madison once. some lady claimed she fell in a grocery store. i took 290 from napertucky and then came up a side street. nothing but vacant lots and burned out houses. lots of folks just walking around aimlessly in the middle of the day. lots of young males in white t shirts on corners. no thanks. reminded me of detroit, back in the day. lol. we went to the garfield conservatory for a wedding once. got sent down side streets. reminded me of watching the wire. lots of people hanging out on stoops, looking rough. I guess I'll stay out of grocery stores and side streets around there, then! This'll cheer you up: just this summer I was riding north on Sacramento one afternoon, approaching that MLK boys club at Washington. I saw three kids, maybe mid-teens, walking south on the sidewalk alongside the club in the approaching direction. As I drew within a few dozen yards I saw one kid kind of notice me and look like he was 'fi'na do something, so I got a notion. And as I was passing them, sure enough, the one kid kind of lerched a step toward me raising both arms up and shouted EEEYAH! And at the same time I leaned toward them and shouted "BOO!" and grinned. And as I was biking away I could hear peals of laughter receding into the distance behind me. Wouldn't it have been funny if they pulled out a gun and shot me? Because, you know, that's exactly what you would expect mid-teen kids in the city to do to a guy riding a bike on a major street in the middle of the day, amirite? 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, buddha said: oh, i'll play! what are "cities that don't have as many people killed as chicago"! If they all had three million people there'd be a lot more killed in these cities than in Chicago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, chasfh said: If they all had three million people there'd be a lot more killed in these cities than in Chicago! And their murder rates are all out of control. Your whatabout St Louis or Detroit or whoever doesn't do much for me. If Chicago had 3 million people, it would have about 90 more murders or over 900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 The absolute hard on event for gun-rights advocates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 So, the irony. Putin sent Marina Butina to seduce the NRA guys and spread pro-Russia love in the gun nut community. Now, the Ukrainian defense against the Russians is the absolute example of why a 2nd amendment exists in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tiger337 said: The United States is super conservative economically and that is driven by a small percentage of very wealthy people who control the country. I think we are generally socially liberal compared to other countries in many respects. When we stray from that, it's done to protect the economic conservatism. We're about to start putting woman in jail for having abortions if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe and turns abortion rights over to states. In Texas you can already face jail time for prescribing abortion pills online and sending them in the mail. This isn't hyperbole on my part, this is real life. Once the far right strips away abortion rights they'll come for marriage equality and LGBTQIA rights next. That doesn't sound socially liberal to me. That sounds like a few steps away from an episode of the Handmaids Tale. Add onto that, one of the former (and possibly next) President's advisors, Mike Lindell, is talking about jailing 300 million people. Going even further, the former (and possibly next) current President wants to change libel laws and eliminate a free press in this country. You think that sounds crazy until they actually start doing it and again, none of that sounds socially liberal to me. Edited January 18, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: We're about to start putting woman in jail for having abortions if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe and turns abortion rights over to states. In Texas you can already face jail time for prescribing abortion pills online and sending them in the mail. This isn't hyperbole on my part, this is real life. Once the far right strips away abortion rights they'll come for marriage equality and LGBTQIA rights next. That doesn't sound socially liberal to me. That sounds like a few steps away from an episode of the Handmaids Tale. Add onto that, one of the former (and possibly next) President's advisors, Mike Lindell, is talking about jailing 300 million people. Going even further, the former (and possibly next) current President wants to change libel laws and eliminate a free press in this country. You think that sounds crazy until they actually start doing it and again, none of that sounds socially liberal to me. no tater, this is hyperbole on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: We're about to start putting woman in jail for having abortions if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe and turns abortion rights over to states. In Texas you can already face jail time for prescribing abortion pills online and sending them in the mail. This isn't hyperbole on my part, this is real life. Once the far right strips away abortion rights they'll come for marriage equality and LGBTQIA rights next. That doesn't sound socially liberal to me. That sounds like a few steps away from an episode of the Handmaids Tale. Add onto that, one of the former (and possibly next) President's advisors, Mike Lindell, is talking about jailing 300 million people. Going even further, the former (and possibly next) current President wants to change libel laws and eliminate a free press in this country. You think that sounds crazy until they actually start doing it and again, none of that sounds socially liberal to me. You are getting yourself worked up over nothing. Yes, abortion is going to be addressed in the SCOTUS but nobody knows whats going to come from it. I really don't see a 100% ban but things do need to change. None of the other other things you mention will happen. This is all far left propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: And their murder rates are all out of control. Your whatabout St Louis or Detroit or whoever doesn't do much for me. If Chicago had 3 million people, it would have about 90 more murders or over 900. And those other 28 cities would have more. Some way more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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