Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[mtutiger]

14 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I know a number of good cops. I would say 99% of them would have rushed into help those kids not fearing for themselves. Shit who wouldn't? I am so perplexed as to how these people just stood there and did nothing.....

The vast majority of cops are good, but it isn't just the quality of the cops, it is the quality of the departments that employ them and the leadership therein.

That is why the "blue line" flags and "back the blue" virtue signaling bothers me... one doesn't have to believe in defunding the police in order to believe that there are a lot of poorly run police departments out there that need reforming. Especially in a country the size of ours. Uvalde is one example, but there are others as well.

But alas, it's "back the blue no matter who!" with a lot of folks.

Edited June 10, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

12 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think most of them would have rushed in there individually.  I think they couldn't break protocol or something.  

As the old saying goes, the fish rots from the head.

The work of a team of quality employees can all be undone by bad management. Doesnt matter if it's law enforcement or engineering or whatever.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

The vast majority of cops are good, but it isn't just the quality of the cops, it is the quality of the departments that employ them and the leadership therein.

That is why the "blue line" flags and "back the blue" virtue signaling bothers me... one doesn't have to believe in defunding the police in order to believe that there are a lot of poorly run police departments out there that need reforming. Especially in a country the size of ours. Uvalde is one example, but there are others as well.

But alas, it's "back the blue no matter who!" with a lot of folks.

I wouldn’t say the vast majority of cops are “good”. I would say the vast majority of cops are people, with a sliding scale of ethics that filter the situation at hand through a combination of their personal backgrounds and their interpretation of their police training.

I also believe that many people who profess to “back the blue” think of the police as a quasi-military force that will firefight their culture war for them.

[Motor City Sonics]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I wouldn’t say the vast majority of cops are “good”. I would say the vast majority of cops are people, with a sliding scale of ethics that filter the situation at hand through a combination of their personal backgrounds and their interpretation of their police training.

I also believe that many people who profess to “back the blue” think of the police as a quasi-military force that will firefight their culture war for them.

I was thinking about what the Breakfast Club kids would be doing at this point

Brian - Very successful career in computers, but unhappy. 

Alison - Once she got to college she met more people like her and wound up working at a record company

Claire - Probably a twice-divorced alcoholic (like Bender predicted).  Probably an HR manager. 

Bender - Works in construction, went through AA, no longer bitter, mentors others

Andrew - Cop.   All day long,  Emilio Estevez character is a Cop.   Those are the guys that become Cops.  

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[Jim Cowan]

I don't think that most cops are good.  I think that a significant number of them are just guys who want to strut around with a gun.  They have formed their own separate entity, so that there are 3 groups in society:  good guys, bad guys, and cops.  They are not your friends.  I think that Uvalde exposed a lot of them for what they really are.

[Motown Bombers]

My cousin became a cop in Minneapolis. He was definitely not Emilio Estevez in Breakfast Club. He is somewhat small and somewhat shy. Not sure what drew him to the police force. 

[RatkoVarda]

mayor of Newark said women make the best cops because they need to first be problem solvers

[chasfh]

 

[Tiger337]

On 6/10/2022 at 12:56 PM, Jim Cowan said:

I don't think that most cops are good.  I think that a significant number of them are just guys who want to strut around with a gun.  They have formed their own separate entity, so that there are 3 groups in society:  good guys, bad guys, and cops.  They are not your friends.  I think that Uvalde exposed a lot of them for what they really are.

People that I remember from high school who became cops were usually a bit thuggy (well thuggy for a middle class suburban community anyway).  That's not all bad, but it can cause problems.  It's a fine line.  You want cops to be tough guys especially if they are working in high crime areas, but you also want them to be responsible.  

[chasfh]

I appreciate the difficulty cops face when there is a potential for violence in a situation that has become uncertain. They need to be able to react decisively in a situation they can maintain control of, without using more force than necessary to subdue the subject, and without hurting bystanders. That’s what good cops do.

Unfortunately, we have seen evidence that it too frequently doesn’t work out that way, and that there are people who are cops who should not be.

As a concept, “back the blue” can be a defensible as a reason to maintain adequate funding and training for police. In practice, too often, it exonerates and protects cops who behave very badly.

[gehringer_2]

50 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I appreciate the difficulty cops face when there is a potential for violence in a situation that has become uncertain. They need to be able to react decisively in a situation they can maintain control of, without using more force than necessary to subdue the subject, and without hurting bystanders. That’s what good cops do.

Unfortunately, we have seen evidence that it too frequently doesn’t work out that way, and that there are people who are cops who should not be.

As a concept, “back the blue” can be a defensible as a reason to maintain adequate funding and training for police. In practice, too often, it exonerates and protects cops who behave very badly.

so much of this just stems from the guns. The number one thing police forces need to do is move away from a militaristic approach to the population, but that gets harder and harder to do when the population is armed like a military, which in turn drive police to have to move toward military culture in learning military tactics.

[ewsieg]

I think it's entirely within ones capability to 'back the blue' and hold police accountable as well.   Following in some of the comments above, I do get turned off when I see the flag with the blue line (not only desecrating the flag IMO, it makes me think of someone that will blindly back the police.)

While there is certainly some issues with the police, I do think in many aspects it's getting better.  In my partisan days, i'd get infuriated when cops were accused of racism for 'harassing' young black man.  Growing up in an area without diversity, the complaints about getting pulled over for a made up reason, having to be respectful even if the police weren't to us, allowing them to search our cars or at least saying it's ok because saying no made us feel like we'd get written up on the imaginary '10 over' we were pulled over for, etc, to me was the cost of being young and had nothing to do with race.

It took too long for me to realize that I should have been on the side of those young black man and instead of disregarding because they claimed race was the issue, look at the underlying aspect that regardless what the reason, it was wrong.   I feel like most people have at least a scrutinized eye on the police now and overall that's good for our country.

[ewsieg]

Hearing Senate deal is expected to be announced today regarding gun laws.

[Tigerbomb13]

Details in the thread

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Details in the thread

Far less than ideal, but there appears to be some pretty meaningful items in there.  

[Tigerbomb13]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Far less than ideal, but there appears to be some pretty meaningful items in there.  

Definitely not far enough, but more than I expected. 

[CMRivdogs]

It's probably all you could possibly get past Senate Republicans who aren't retiring and are running for re-election.

[Edman85]

Better than nothing... Perfect is the enemy of good.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Edman85

[Motor City Sonics]

Holy shit, actual movement.     

The NRA will start screaming any minute now. 

[oblong]

[Motor City Sonics]

A man in Warren's house exploded.   He had stockpiled weapons and explosives.   He has an extensive criminal record involving weapons, yet was somehow still able to stockpile them.     He lost both of his arms in the explosions  and this might sound cold, but you reap what you sow.     Whatever he was up to, it wasn't good.  

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

11 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

A man in Warren's house exploded.   He had stockpiled weapons and explosives.   He has an extensive criminal record involving weapons, yet was somehow still able to stockpile them.     He lost both of his arms in the explosions  and this might sound cold, but you reap what you sow.     Whatever he was up to, it wasn't good.  

So now he's an unarmed man...

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

So now he's an unarmed man...

terrible, but still funny.

[ewsieg]

22 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Can't remember where I heard it recently, but likely one of a few podcasts where they somewhat debunked the excess guns = more shootings and they pointed out a few countries that actually do have high rates of gun ownership without the high amount of shootings.  That said, they did see a correlation between how religious a country was and how many shootings.  Things that make you go hmmm....