Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Motown Bombers]

Yeah, Japan doesn't have a history of violent expansion. 

[Motown Bombers]

Reports are the shooter was former military. It would seem even former military couldn't even get a gun in Japan and had to make one. 

[Tiger337]

32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

See? The media showing the actual person being shot works. When was the last time you heard of a shooting at a ballgame?

When they get shot by the  weapons of today, do you even recognize that it's a person?  

[1776]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

LOL don't both sides this. 

 

My point stands. The political culture here is poisonous at most every level. Laugh if that helps. It IS both sides. Maxine Waters literally directs people to get in the faces of people that have have opposing political views and Trump has his January 6th trophy to show off. These morons are not fit to serve. And of course, they are not the only players in this juvenile behavior. It is not only tolerated but it is applauded. This isn’t about choosing sides. Defending either side of this is wrong. 
The killer of Abe, at last glance, denied his motive was political. I doubt that’s true but we’ll find out in time. 

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

My point stands. The political culture here is poisonous at most every level. Laugh if that helps. It IS both sides. Maxine Waters literally directs people to get in the faces of people that have have opposing political views and Trump has his January 6th trophy to show off. These morons are not fit to serve. And of course, they are not the only players in this juvenile behavior. It is not only tolerated but it is applauded. This isn’t about choosing sides. Defending either side of this is wrong. 
The killer of Abe, at last glance, denied his motive was political. I doubt that’s true but we’ll find out in time. 

A Republican member of congress was just on the floor of the house saying she will shoot her grandkids if necessary. A Republican senate candidate just released a RINO hunting ad with him carry an assault rifle and military breaking into a house to shoot RINOs. The Highland Park shooter is a right wing extremist who supported Trump. The Buffalo shooter was motivated by great replacement theory championed by Tucker Carlson and Elise Stefanik. This is just in roughly the last 30 days. This doesn't even consider domestic terrorist groups are supported by Republicans but yeah Maxine Waters said something years ago. Get out of here with this both sides bullshit. 

[Motown Bombers]

I challenge 1776 to find video of Maxine Waters on the house floor saying she will shoot her grandkids if necessary or a campaign ad of hers with her holding an assault weapon hunting her political opponent. 

[1776]

With attitudes like yours, nothing will ever change. You’re so full of grievances you can’t find an ounce of objectiveness. 

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

With attitudes like yours, nothing will ever change. You’re so full of grievances you can’t find an ounce of objectiveness. 

Both sides are not equal in this. Go find the campaign ad of Democrats with guns hunting their political opponents. Go find the examples of mass shooters who supported Democrats. You will find far more on the Republican side. Being objective doesn't mean you just assume both sides are equally culpable. 

[Motown Bombers]

A 4th of July parade was shut down in Lansing because liberals blocked the parade route. A 4th of July parade in Illinois was cut short because a right wing Trump supporter shot and killed 7 people. I'm objective because I blame both sides equally. 

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, 1776 said:

With attitudes like yours, nothing will ever change. You’re so full of grievances you can’t find an ounce of objectiveness. 

I agree that the left sometimes hints at violence and they should not do that.  The right doesn't hint.  They come right and say it now. 

The glorification of guns is a big problem too.  If pro gun people want to be taken seriously, maybe they could say something like "My right to a gun is important to me, but gun ownership is a very serious responsibility and not everyone is capabable of doing the work necessary to earn that right".  That would be a lot better that taking photo ops with guns like Boebert or designing Christmas cards where everyone in the family is holding a gun or creating ads where they shoot their political opponents. 

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree that the left sometimes hints at violence and they should not do that.  The right doesn't hint.  They come right and say it now. 

The glorification of guns is a big problem too.  If pro gun people want to be taken seriously, maybe they could say something like "My right to a gun is important to me, but gun ownership is a very serious responsibility and not everyone is capabable of doing the work necessary to earn that right".  That would be a lot better that taking photo ops with guns like Boebert or designing Christmas cards where everyone in the family is holding a gun or creating ads where they shoot their political opponents. 

The thing that prevents this is Slippery Slope: “If I say that not everyone is capable of gun ownership, They will ban gun ownership for everyone including me, and then only the criminals will have guns, and then we won’t be able to defend ourselves from the runaway street crime.”

[Motown Bombers]

I just read a take that because Japan has more deaths by Katana than the US that means gun control doesn't work. 

[Edman85]

I can both sides extremism and point out that extremism on the right scares me more these days. I also think that left and right extremism fuel eachother. Jan 6 was rationalized by many of its participants by the Floyd protests that got out of hand.

[Motown Bombers]

And yet it was a right winger boogaloo boi who admitted to shooting up the police station in Minneapolis that got burned down and not a BLM protestor. This is also ignoring the fact that BLM were protesting a legitimate cause and not fueled by a lie from the Republican party. Both sides are not equal in extremism. 

[Archie]

54 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

And yet it was a right winger boogaloo boi who admitted to shooting up the police station in Minneapolis that got burned down and not a BLM protestor. This is also ignoring the fact that BLM were protesting a legitimate cause and not fueled by a lie from the Republican party. Both sides are not equal in extremism. 

There is too much violence in this country and its coming from both sides.  Don't forget the lefties that physically attack people because they don't like their opinion or because they are wearing something that supports a Republican.  I know a lot of people that carry firearms just because there are people like this in the US.  This kind of violence happens everywhere and is condoned by democrat politicians and they encourage it.   Even Bidens public idiot Pierre said today its ok to harass Supreme Court justices at home or in public because its part of democracy.  All of this is stupid and makes the US less safe.  

[1984Echoes]

5 hours ago, 1776 said:

With attitudes like yours, nothing will ever change. You’re so full of grievances you can’t find an ounce of objectiveness. 

Both sides are not equal.

You are completely and totally full of shit.

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

And yet it was a right winger boogaloo boi who admitted to shooting up the police station in Minneapolis that got burned down and not a BLM protestor. This is also ignoring the fact that BLM were protesting a legitimate cause and not fueled by a lie from the Republican party. Both sides are not equal in extremism. 

Once again, struggling with nuance. Extremism can be fueled by both sides without both sides being equal in their extremism.

[1776]

23 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Both sides are not equal.

You are completely and totally full of shit.

Both sides are guilty of incivilities. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by 1776

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

And yet it was a right winger boogaloo boi who admitted to shooting up the police station in Minneapolis that got burned down and not a BLM protestor. This is also ignoring the fact that BLM were protesting a legitimate cause and not fueled by a lie from the Republican party. Both sides are not equal in extremism. 

I agree with Edman that i'm more worried about right wing extremists currently, but you just pointed out about a situation where even if 100% of the blame on that building was a boogaloo boi, we're talking what 1 million dollars in damage, rough estimates for the Floyd protests were around 2 billion nationally.  

Just as the GOP is wrong to try and deflect criticism about 1/6, probably not right to deflect criticism about the Floyd riots.

[Motown Bombers]

34 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Once again, struggling with nuance. Extremism can be fueled by both sides without both sides being equal in their extremism.

Once again you are trying to justify right wing extremism violence by both sidesing it. It wasn't Hillary Clinton who rallied armed supporters to the capitol to hang Joe Biden if he didn't overturn the election. The Highland Park shooter didn't have flags of Joe Biden. The Buffalo shooter didn't shoot up a black supermarket because of defund the police. The El Paso shooter didn't shoot up a Walmart because he was afraid Texas is turning into a red state. The original premise of this discussion was that both sides are extreme and fueling the violence. It's very clear there is one side that is the problem. You don't just get to excuse the right by saying nuance and both sides. 

2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I agree with Edman that i'm more worried about right wing extremists currently, but you just pointed out about a situation where even if 100% of the blame on that building was a boogaloo boi, we're talking what 1 million dollars in damage, rough estimates for the Floyd protests were around 2 billion nationally.  

Just as the GOP is wrong to try and deflect criticism about 1/6, probably not right to deflect criticism about the Floyd riots.

The original pretext was extremism on both sides fuels violence. Now we're down to property damage, which by the way a lot of right wing extremist were found to be causing the damage. They were literally doing it so Edman can come and say nuance and both sides and the left fuels extremism too. 

Who is deflecting criticism about the Floyd protests? This conversation was about violence. A lot of property damage was done during the protests. 

[1984Echoes]

47 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Both sides are guilty of incivilities. 

Both sides guilty doesn't make them equal.

If I put weights on both sides of a scale, than "both sides", right?

But one side is a one ounce weight and the other weighs 50 pounds... both sides are equal?

You're pulling a "false equivalence" argument. Total bullshit.

Motown Bombers is 100% correct.

[Edman85]

26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Once again you are trying to justify right wing extremism violence by both sidesing it. It wasn't Hillary Clinton who rallied armed supporters to the capitol to hang Joe Biden if he didn't overturn the election. The Highland Park shooter didn't have flags of Joe Biden. The Buffalo shooter didn't shoot up a black supermarket because of defund the police. The El Paso shooter didn't shoot up a Walmart because he was afraid Texas is turning into a red state. The original premise of this discussion was that both sides are extreme and fueling the violence. It's very clear there is one side that is the problem. You don't just get to excuse the right by saying nuance and both sides. 

The original pretext was extremism on both sides fuels violence. Now we're down to property damage, which by the way a lot of right wing extremist were found to be causing the damage. They were literally doing it so Edman can come and say nuance and both sides and the left fuels extremism too. 

Who is deflecting criticism about the Floyd protests? This conversation was about violence. A lot of property damage was done during the protests. 

Who is justifying right wing violence? Christ man, you are obtuse.

 

If the actions of left wing protests going overboard fuel and make worse the much much much much worse actions of the right wing nutjobs, then yes, they do add fuel. Anything that raises the temperature adds fuel, and that includes ad hominins from me on a forum.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Edman85

[1776]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

Both sides guilty doesn't make them equal.

If I put weights on both sides of a scale, than "both sides", right?

But one side is a one ounce weight and the other weighs 50 pounds... both sides are equal?

You're pulling a "false equivalence" argument. Total bullshit.

Motown Bombers is 100% correct.

Do you realize how petty this conversation is? It is borderline comical. 

[1984Echoes]

49 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Both sides are guilty of incivilities. 

And in the face of 30+ years of contemptible right-side language and behavior and violence, starting with Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan, through the Tea Leaf ("FU") Party politics, and today's violent fascists all over America, and including a history of racism, xenophobia, Jim Crow, police brutality, slavery, lynchings, and other acts of white trash bigotry...

I have no problem in standing up and committing opposite and equal acts of violence against these MF'ing scumbags. I'm going to buy an AR-15. And if these right wing fascist mf'ing scumbags make another attempt to overthrow our Democracy... I WILL protect the Constitution of the United States. Make of that what you will.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Do you realize how petty this conversation is? It is borderline comical. 

The "both sides" false equivalence is what the hysterical joke is.