Motor City Sonics Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 (edited) Imagine being in 4th grade and having the sense to smear your dead friend's blood on yourself and play dead to avoid getting shot. Imagine having that kind of sense in that kind of chaos and then imagine not being completely scarred for life. Yeah, but lets not do anything....................everything is fine........price of freedom.......thoughts and prayers........blah blah blah Edited June 8, 2022 by Motor City Sonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 46 minutes ago, pfife said: screw 'em. There should be no special security for anyone in gov. Let them live with exactly what the rest of us get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 55 minutes ago, pfife said: Can you believe this fucking nerve. Incredible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Just now, smr-nj said: Can you believe this fucking nerve. Incredible sadly I can. I think McConnell is the most cynical politician in government and he might not even have a close competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 If guns are a right, should access be limited to those who can afford it? Is it actually a right if you can be denied it because you have insufficient funds? Isn't this existence proof that the amendment is obviously not absolute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 When the right acts like our amendments are "God Given" and somehow sacred.... they insert a line that they then can claim they are incapable of crossing for religious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, oblong said: When the right acts like our amendments are "God Given" and somehow sacred.... they insert a line that they then can claim they are incapable of crossing for religious reasons. It's super easy to see how the Constitution and the Bible, how the Founding Fathers and Jesus, can all be conflated. Call it Appeal to Invisible Authority, maybe. Whatever you call it, it's helpful to them to appeal to authorities who are unable to confirm or clarify any of their claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, chasfh said: probably a mistake to challenge one of these nuts to find something in the bible, because they will. Like all complex literature, the Bible can reflect back to you anything you want to bring to it if you are so disposed. To me, and YMMV for anyone else, the key point to try to force is that religious people have no a priori right to impose what they believe on others on *that* basis. You may believe murder is wrong because God forbids it, but when you bring the desire to ban murder to the secular society you have to find secular grounds to do it. And that is easy so we do don't argue that much about legislating about murder. If you think things are wrong (or right) for religious reasons that the larger society has no reason to agree with you about, then you must be prepared to live your life the way you want and leave others alone to do the same, because in the end that is the only approach that guarantees *yours* or anyone's religious freedom in the first place. Edited June 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 exactly. None of our laws should be based on something in a religious text or teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: The stones on Gym Jordan to bring god and morality into something when he helped cover up the sexual abuse of young men. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: probably a mistake to challenge one of these nuts to find something in the bible, because they will. Like all complex literature, the Bible can reflect back to you anything you want to bring to it if you are so disposed. To me, and YMMV for anyone else, the key point to try to force is that religious people have no a priori right to impose what they believe on others on *that* basis. You may believe murder is wrong because God forbids it, but when you bring the desire to ban murder to the secular society you have to find secular grounds to do it. And that is easy so we do don't argue that much about legislating about murder. If you think things are wrong (or right) for religious reasons that the larger society has no reason to agree with you about, then you must be prepared to live your life the way you want and leave others alone to do the same, because in the end that is the only approach that guarantees *yours* or anyone's religious freedom in the first place. Well, people who believe in evangelical Christianity—and those cynical people who pretend so they can exploit it for votes and power—would argue that this is not a secular society, but a Christian nation. Also, evangelical Christianity was never a live-and-let-live religion, at least not as practiced in America. It is very much a I-get-to-tell-you-what-to-do-and-you'll-like-it-or-else religion. The only thing that's missing is enforcement at the point of a gun which, not for nothing, is what they unironically claim taxation literally is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 A wave of stupidity has washed over this country and if we don't get everyone we know and then some out to vote for Democrats in 2022 that wave will come crashing down on governmental bodies all over this country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 33 minutes ago, chasfh said: Well, people who believe in evangelical Christianity—and those cynical people who pretend so they can exploit it for votes and power—would argue that this is not a secular society, but a Christian nation. Also, evangelical Christianity was never a live-and-let-live religion, at least not as practiced in America. It is very much a I-get-to-tell-you-what-to-do-and-you'll-like-it-or-else religion. The only thing that's missing is enforcement at the point of a gun which, not for nothing, is what they unironically claim taxation literally is. There is a tragic amount of truth in this. I probably couldn't count the number to times I've drawn the parallel between the basic worldview of American Christian 'fundamentalists' and Radical Islam. Motivationally, emotionally, intellectually they are cut from exactly the same whole cloth. One basic big key being, (and just like in Jesus' day) a structure around a pharisaic class that takes the right of interpretation of divine mandate unto itself, which leverages that class into social and political power, and in the US case especially, an economic payday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: A wave of stupidity has washed over this country and if we don't get everyone we know and then some out to vote for Democrats in 2022 that wave will come crashing down on governmental bodies all over this country. But the Democrats haven't eliminated my student debt like they promised so why bother? In two years they haven't passed everything on my wish list so I'm just going to sit this one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Again. Nothing will be accomplished at the federal level. And if changes are only at a state level, it won’t do shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Share Posted June 9, 2022 When an entire police force feels overpowered by a teenager at the expense of dying children - maybe, just maybe we should do something about guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: When an entire police force feels overpowered by a teenager at the expense of dying children - maybe, just maybe we should do something about guns. well put. As I have noted, 1st responder training is generally NOT about offering yourself to risk in a situation, it's about securing the situation and not adding people to the risk pool. That may sound less than heroic, but you don't hire people for everyday jobs, even everyday policing jobs, with the stipulation that they are expected to die in someone's else's place at the first opportunity. Human society does't work that way. Heroism is rare, not commonplace. It cannot be part of the normal expectation for anyone in civilian life. Firemen come closest, but even there, they are operating where they understand and can control the level of risk they are taking in ways a police officer in a chaotic weapons situation can't. Edited June 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I know a number of good cops. I would say 99% of them would have rushed into help those kids not fearing for themselves. Shit who wouldn't? I am so perplexed as to how these people just stood there and did nothing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I know a number of good cops. I would say 99% of them would have rushed into help those kids not fearing for themselves. Shit who wouldn't? I am so perplexed as to how these people just stood there and did nothing..... sure, that can be true at the individual level, but as an institution, officer protection is built into every police operating procedure to the greatest extent it can be. Maybe that's the irony here. If one or two cops arrived at the scene and knew they were on their own, their personal courage may have more likely resulted in them doing something than the institutional response once the whole organization got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I know a number of good cops. I would say 99% of them would have rushed into help those kids not fearing for themselves. Shit who wouldn't? I am so perplexed as to how these people just stood there and did nothing..... Not the first time the cops shit the bed, surely won't be the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Who had Maryland in the pool? New pool. I'll take Florida. Those crazy bastards have been quiet for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I know a number of good cops. I would say 99% of them would have rushed into help those kids not fearing for themselves. Shit who wouldn't? I am so perplexed as to how these people just stood there and did nothing..... I think most of them would have rushed in there individually. I think they couldn't break protocol or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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