gehringer_2 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, chasfh said: That’s because Democratic centrists have long had the broad general support of the establishment and to some degree the people at large, and extreme leftists have practically never had that. This is a conservative country with a warped sense of its own frontier history and present, and as such will tolerate as normative the extreme on only one side of the spectrum, because that side is friendlier to lone wolves, and people like to see themselves as rugged individualists responsible for and to only themselves. That’s what right-wing extremism promotes, which is the opposite of the collectivism left-wing extremism promotes. The more any policy requires or promotes any kind of social cooperation among people in order to work, the more likely it will fail in America. too true. And totally ironic as the capabilities that lifted the US to global predominance are all deeply cooperative - public education, science, and war fighting. The lone wolves in Wyoming would all be speaking German or Russian today if theirs had ever been the real ethos driving the future in the US. Edited June 19, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Here an interesting way of looking at it … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: too true. And totally ironic as the capabilities that lifted the US to global predominance are all deeply cooperative - public education, science, and war fighting. The lone wolves in Wyoming would all be speaking German or Russian today if theirs had ever been the real ethos driving the future in the US. Indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) Edited June 20, 2022 by Crazy Cat Gentleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 We don’t normally think about it that way when it comes to police forces, but it is true that they are populated by people, and a certain percentage of people are cowardly bastards who are in it only to boss ordinary people around, intimidate cafe owners into giving them free meals, run any red light or stop sign they feel like, roll hookers and drug dealers for sex and money, and bang badge chasers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 I don't know this town but could it be considered kind of "light" in terms of police duty? How often would they come into dangerous situations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Uvalde has a pretty low crime rate which is baffling since over 80% of it is rapists and murderers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, oblong said: I don't know this town but could it be considered kind of "light" in terms of police duty? How often would they come into dangerous situations? Probably not often. In Michigan terms, imagine this all transpiring in Lapeer or Adrian or some place like that. I know that the job is dangerous and I don't want to be too harsh on police, but the job is pretty attractive as well: it pays well, the benefits are fantastic. Even in states like Texas which are hostile to union membership, their ability to unionize is practically sacrosanct. Outside of maybe the fire department, they are the God's of civil service. They are valued far more than the guy who works for the Public Works department who keeps the water tap running or the the Parks Department employee who keeps the parks clean. But that level of value that they provide comes with the expectation that when the rubber meets the road, that they will put their lives on the line to take care of problems as they arise. And this was just a global failure all around, and hearing all the fallout from the event and how public officials are responding here locally, it is (correctly) delivering a blow to all the "thin blue line" virtue signaling that abounds here... the contours of the debate over policing after the George Floyd protests still exist to an extent, but I do think that the "police are never wrong" subtext that the "thin blue line" flags and decals convey is being challenged. Edited June 21, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 The officers I've seen didn't look like they'd accomplish much if they had to go on a foot chase and that when they put their holster on they have to "suck it in" a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: This country is so screwed up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 57 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Thread But this is what I was afraid of. The discussion about the quality of the police response it a total misdirection from the real problem, which was the shooter being there armed the was he was in the first place. The police may have made it much worse, but fundamentally the situation was lost before they ever got there - that is what needs to be fixed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Another hurdle cleared https://apnews.com/article/shootings-violence-gun-chris-murphy-congress-ba9f727cfed75b5dcc5528180c6e432b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 I heard a report this week that the classroom in question wasn't even locked. No one attempted to try and find out until they finally went in to breach it. Not that I want to see it, but the police cams need to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 so an unarmed mother with no body armor stormed in to get her kid but cops with armor and shields and guns were like "No, man....." Why are there even cops in that town? If you don't go in when kids are in the process of being killed then you don't need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Uvalde-police-officer-was-detained-as-he-tried-to-17256559.php A good guy with a gun, prevented from doing anything by other 'good' guys with more guns. The loss of life is horrible, but the response is infuriating. It does look like Texas and this city is going to try and hide the details, but everything needs to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 from the NYT: More than half of all attacks are over before police arrive. who stops the guy with the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 lol states’ rights Loc up, mf’ers, shit’s about to get real out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Times Square is going to become even more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 looks like good faith jurisprudence to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, pfife said: looks like good faith jurisprudence to me original intent on arms, even though the founders didn't even know what a bullet was, but not on religion, which is quite the same as ever. Edited June 23, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Our sick fucking society and it's sick fascination with guns. How come they always leave out the "well-regulated militia" part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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