Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[smr-nj]

Daniel Penny found not guilty of criminally negligent homicide in the death of Jordan Neely.

This verdict is exactly right, and anyone who has ridden public transportation in NYC or elsewhere can totally understand what it feels like when someone who is exhibiting threatening behavior is on your subway car… and there’s nowhere to go.

The prosecution charging him with criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter was such a huge overreach.

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[smr-nj]

7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

Please… that guy (Kyle) has probably never been on the subway to go to work.

people who are on those subways commuting to their jobs, don’t have time for any other **** other than to just get to their job. It’s not gonna inspire any copycats. That’s just a really stupid post by him.

[pfife]

Noted criminologist kyle on twitter

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

relevant to this story....

there was a  piece in the Atlantic recently about police work - a long interview with a researcher who studies police manning and crime rate questions. One of the ancillary points that the story raises is that to an increasing degree, what the public is demanding is more *order* in public spaces, but the problem for law enforcement is that the things the public wants enforced are mostly not illegal  - at least anymore (things like vagrancy etc), and if the police push in those areas, they get only get in trouble, are accused of harassment, etc. As a society we have not done a good job of recognizing that disconnect and figuring out what to do about it. We basically have a legal regime where we can't get what we want inside the system we have created. I think cases like Penny's are a direct result of this.

[1776]

Law enforcement has arrested a suspect in connection with the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which occurred in New York City last Wednesday outside of a Manhattan hotel.

Luigi Mangione, 26, of Towson, Md., was stopped in Altoona, Pa., on Monday. The detained suspect had with him a handwritten manifesto that criticized the health care industry for prioritizing profits, according to law enforcement.

Carrying a fake New Jersey ID, Mangione was on a Greyhound bus before he walked into a McDonald’s in the morning, where he was recognized by an individual who alerted police. The man had in his possession a gun similar to the one used in Thompson’s murder, sources told ABC News.

New York Police Department detectives are en route to Pennsylvania where they are questioning the suspect, whose recovered ID matches one used by the assassin hours before the shooting, authorities said. Police have obtained writings critical of the insurance industry and a computer from the suspect, the Associated Press reported, and have not charged Mangione.

NR

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

Law enforcement has arrested a suspect in connection with the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which occurred in New York City last Wednesday outside of a Manhattan hotel.

Luigi Mangione, 26, of Towson, Md., was stopped in Altoona, Pa., on Monday. The detained suspect had with him a handwritten manifesto that criticized the health care industry for prioritizing profits, according to law enforcement.

Carrying a fake New Jersey ID, Mangione was on a Greyhound bus before he walked into a McDonald’s in the morning, where he was recognized by an individual who alerted police. The man had in his possession a gun similar to the one used in Thompson’s murder, sources told ABC News.

New York Police Department detectives are en route to Pennsylvania where they are questioning the suspect, whose recovered ID matches one used by the assassin hours before the shooting, authorities said. Police have obtained writings critical of the insurance industry and a computer from the suspect, the Associated Press reported, and have not charged Mangione.

NR

I don't know if this is more a WOW or a smh? The guy does all this meticulous planning before the fact and then doesn't ditch the gun and paperwork after the fact? Well, I suppose if the guy was wired right he probably wouldn't be murdering people.

[Tigeraholic1]

Look at that. One of the LW’s favorite groups with a pleasant message.

 

 

[romad1]

3 hours ago, smr-nj said:

Daniel Penny found not guilty of criminally negligent homicide in the death of Jordan Neely.

This verdict is exactly right, and anyone who has ridden public transportation in NYC or elsewhere can totally understand what it feels like when someone who is exhibiting threatening behavior is on your subway car… and there’s nowhere to go.

The prosecution charging him with criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter was such a huge overreach.

Incident reminded me of of a board for Airman of the Quarter in 1987 that asked me about Bernie Goetz (incident happened in 1984) and I was the only person in the group of 4 people i was competing with who got that he was convicted on illegal possession of a firearm.    I think that was my last tangible intellectual success that I can recall.

[gehringer_2]

57 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Look at that. One of the LW’s favorite groups with a pleasant message.

 

 

In the end, it's not justice to hold Penny responsible for a tragedy not of his making. There has to be a better way of keeping Jordan Neely from acting out threats in a public space then having him run into Daniel Penny. Again, it goes back the fact that in every functional society, the expectation of order in public spaces is the norm and Americans are no different in sharing that expectation and demanding it be met.

[smr-nj]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't know if this is more a WOW or a smh? The guy does all this meticulous planning before the fact and then doesn't ditch the gun and paperwork after the fact? Well, I suppose if the guy was wired right he probably wouldn't be murdering people.

That is a puzzlement, without a doubt.  He could have tossed that gun in Central Park almost anywhere off a dark path and unless it had some mozzarella wrapped around it and was found by one of those subway-pizza-super-rats came across it… it would be gone for a good, long time.  
 

Totally puzzling that he didn’t dump the ID’s either.

Maybe he thought he was going to be caught that day and was astounded that he got away from the scene without being detained.

[smr-nj]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

In the end, it's not justice to hold Penny responsible for a tragedy not of his making. There has to be a better way of keeping Jordan Neely from acting out threats in a public space then having him run into Daniel Penny. Again, it goes back the fact that in every functional society, the expectation of order in public spaces is the norm and Americans are no different in sharing that expectation and demanding it be met.

I’m not sure that people unfamiliar with theNYC subway system can actually appreciate that massiveness of it.  
 

There is a police presence, but it would be totally unrealistic to think every car on every train on every line would have an authority figure present.

 

“As of 2023, the daily ridership for the New York City subway is approximately 3.6 million, which is about 68% of pre-pandemic levels. In 2019, the average daily ridership was almost 5.5 million.”

[IdahoBert]

1 minute ago, smr-nj said:

Maybe he thought he was going to be caught that day and was astounded that he got away from the scene without being detained.

You’re right. It seems he’s one guy on his own without a network of cohorts that could help him go into hiding. He went to a lot of trouble and planned things pretty well, but I don’t think he ever really expected to get away so once he was on the lam he had nowhere to go. He’s not as ambitious as DB Cooper when it comes to getting away, since he was more interested in making his point. 

[oblong]

And as we learned in Loki season 2, he was Cooper 

 

then there’s this. 

[Motown Bombers]

I heard he called Best Quality vacuum and asked for a new dust filter for a Hoover Max Extract Pressure Pro Model 60. 

[Deleterious]

🤣

 

[Tigermojo]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

In the end, it's not justice to hold Penny responsible for a tragedy not of his making. There has to be a better way of keeping Jordan Neely from acting out threats in a public space then having him run into Daniel Penny. Again, it goes back the fact that in every functional society, the expectation of order in public spaces is the norm and Americans are no different in sharing that expectation and demanding it be met.

This could potentially be prevented with mental health care. The family will often know their loved one is in trouble but the cost is too high or the patient refuses treatment. The system lets these people down and relies on the police to deal with the problem.

[chasfh]

Speaking of which: when do we hear what cabinet post Kyle Rittenhouse is getting?

[romad1]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Speaking of which: when do we hear what cabinet post Kyle Rittenhouse is getting?

Department of Low-IQ Riot Shootings Because Mama Said To

[casimir]

3 hours ago, smr-nj said:

I’m not sure that people unfamiliar with theNYC subway system can actually appreciate that massiveness of it.  
 

There is a police presence, but it would be totally unrealistic to think every car on every train on every line would have an authority figure present.

 

“As of 2023, the daily ridership for the New York City subway is approximately 3.6 million, which is about 68% of pre-pandemic levels. In 2019, the average daily ridership was almost 5.5 million.”

We were on the subway a little in Manhattan.  While I’m sure I don’t understand the enormity of it, it was quite a thing to me.  I hadn’t considered the connections and the crossings of North-South lines with East-West lines and how that would require another staircase to traverse in the same station, but, sure, that makes sense when seeing it.

I don’t recall seeing much of a police presence in the underworld, but I can’t say I was looking out, either.   But we’re noobs, so what do we know?

We did manage to not pay attention and boarded a train with what is probably safe to assume was someone that was homeless.  He was unkempt, sleeping on sets with a blanket over him, and had a small grocery cart with him.  Of course we didn’t realize it until he doors closed.

Ah, here’s a fun subway story.  It’s me, my wife, and our 13 year old daughter.  We get down to an already stopped train unsure if we should take it.  My wife suddenly climbs on after we hesitated.  Doors close before my kid and I can get on it.  A lady noticed it, and had a look of horrified confusion on her face.  I don’t think she saw me, so I think she thought my kid was left by herself.  So, OK, my kid and I wait for the next train.  Train shows up, I’m still not sure that’s the right direction.  I’m fumbling with my phone, my kid moves towards the train, and I just grab her with my other hand.  “Nope, either we board same time shoulder to shoulder or I make you hold my hand.”

Then my wife and I connect on the phone.  She went the wrong way, she’ll board the next one going the right way, we’ll meet at the destination.  Ok, fine.  The kid and I board the next train going the right way.  Doors close, train starts moving.  We’re at the rear of our car.  I look at the next car and the wife is sitting at the beginning of that car, paying absolutely no attention to the kid and I banging and waving at her.

[smr-nj]

31 minutes ago, casimir said:

We were on the subway a little in Manhattan.  While I’m sure I don’t understand the enormity of it, it was quite a thing to me.  I hadn’t considered the connections and the crossings of North-South lines with East-West lines and how that would require another staircase to traverse in the same station, but, sure, that makes sense when seeing it.

I don’t recall seeing much of a police presence in the underworld, but I can’t say I was looking out, either.   But we’re noobs, so what do we know?

We did manage to not pay attention and boarded a train with what is probably safe to assume was someone that was homeless.  He was unkempt, sleeping on sets with a blanket over him, and had a small grocery cart with him.  Of course we didn’t realize it until he doors closed.

Ah, here’s a fun subway story.  It’s me, my wife, and our 13 year old daughter.  We get down to an already stopped train unsure if we should take it.  My wife suddenly climbs on after we hesitated.  Doors close before my kid and I can get on it.  A lady noticed it, and had a look of horrified confusion on her face.  I don’t think she saw me, so I think she thought my kid was left by herself.  So, OK, my kid and I wait for the next train.  Train shows up, I’m still not sure that’s the right direction.  I’m fumbling with my phone, my kid moves towards the train, and I just grab her with my other hand.  “Nope, either we board same time shoulder to shoulder or I make you hold my hand.”

Then my wife and I connect on the phone.  She went the wrong way, she’ll board the next one going the right way, we’ll meet at the destination.  Ok, fine.  The kid and I board the next train going the right way.  Doors close, train starts moving.  We’re at the rear of our car.  I look at the next car and the wife is sitting at the beginning of that car, paying absolutely no attention to the kid and I banging and waving at her.

Omg, your subway story is hilarious 😂! That’s epic ❤️

I certainly don’t want to dissuade anyone from taking the subway when in NY, it was/is still the best and fastest (& least expensive) way around town. 
You just need to be aware of your surroundings, like you would elsewhere.

The only really necessary piece of advice to give anyone is never, ever, ever stand close to the edge… always stand as far back as you can.

edit to add:full transparency - I don’t visit the city very much anymore, mostly due to physical issues.  But I think my take on traveling via subway is still valid.

[casimir]

4 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

Omg, your subway story is hilarious 😂! That’s epic ❤️

I certainly don’t want to dissuade anyone from taking the subway when in NY, it was/is still the best and fastest (& least expensive) way around town. 
You just need to be aware of your surroundings, like you would elsewhere.

The only really necessary piece of advice to give anyone is never, ever, ever stand close to the edge… always stand as far back as you can.

edit to add:full transparency - I don’t visit the city very much anymore, mostly due to physical issues.  But I think my take on traveling via subway is still valid.

Yes, we made sure to stay back from the edge.  Never did see any rats, which I was on the lookout for.

[smr-nj]

I should probably also mention that decades ago, growing up in the Bronx, one of our childhood summer activities. (unbeknownst to parents)was playing subway tag. In the Bronx, a lot of the stations and tracks were actually above ground, not below ground, and I can definitely remember riding with my friends in between the cars with 1 foot on the step for one car and the other foot on the step for the other car and looking down.

. It was great fun.

[casimir]

Oh heck, I forgot I took her picture!

[romad1]

All this subway talk is making me want to watch "The Warriors."  A movie my dad decried as totally bereft of plot until I explained to him that it was Xenophon's Anabasis and it mapped the journey of the Ten Thousand who needed to escape the Persian empire to get to the sea.   That Coney Island was a stand-in for the ancient greek settlement of Trabizond except it didn't have as many Russians in the 1970s.