Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's interesting, the fact the cops were too afraid to go into the classroom really makes me call into question the Don't Mess With Texas mantra. 

I thought the same thing myself.  A lot of tough talk, but.................kind of like tough guy patriot Ted Nugent (who unironically lives in Texas now) who intentionally shit his pants to keep from being drafted.   I get the reason why, the war was bullshit (not the troops, the war itself), but you can't do that and then talk like a patriotic tough guy.  

[Motor City Sonics]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

For sure.

For me, driving around where I live, you constantly see the "thin blue line" flags and all the virtue signaling about the cops, most of which is a reaction to BLM protests one imagines.

Yet for all the flags and bumper sticker decals, cops aren't perfect... they are human just like anyone else. And as such shouldn't be above criticism or scrutiny.

The events a couple of days ago are a case in point. All evidence points thus far to failure on the part of those responding to this incident.

Part of it might be the fact that a typical patrol cop, first responder doesn't have head-to-toe body armor or shielding to get close.  So I partly understand that.   But it is a job where every single day when you punch in - you know could be your last.  It sucks, but that's part of the deal.   

[Motown Bombers]

I understand this is appears to be a rural school so maybe they aren't equipped but that's ridiculous considering Texas encourages everyone be armed to the teeth. One would think swat should have been called immediately when there is an active shooter in an elementary school. 

[pfife]

Once again, as soon as one of these mass murders happens, there's the kneejerk reaction, making it political and trying to take doors from law abiding citizens.

[Motown Bombers]

Texas going to Texas. 

 

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I understand this is appears to be a rural school so maybe they aren't equipped but that's ridiculous considering Texas encourages everyone be armed to the teeth. One would think swat should have been called immediately when there is an active shooter in an elementary school. 

Uvalde actually has a SWAT unit fwiw...

[Tigerbomb13]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

if you are a parent, or even if you are not, this will make you weep

 

Just when you can’t think this couldn’t possibly get more horrendous, it does. 

[Motown Bombers]

This may be the worst take yet. 

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Beto ranted on this yesterday when he was shouting at Governor Gun Abbott, but . . .

KVUE ABC Local News: New report ranks Texas last in access to mental health care

[pfife]

whitlock out with a hot take that (paraphrasing) the cops basically said ah screw it b/c liberals hurt their feefees

[RatkoVarda]

 

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Just when you can’t think this couldn’t possibly get more horrendous, it does. 

this may be a little unfair. It is a basic tenet of 1st responder training not to allow more people to go into a dangerous area. If the police were not responding the situation in the building adequately that is completely open to any fair criticism, but not keeping more people from entering it.

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I understand this is appears to be a rural school so maybe they aren't equipped but that's ridiculous considering Texas encourages everyone be armed to the teeth. One would think swat should have been called immediately when there is an active shooter in an elementary school. 

Yes, but being a rural school/town, it might have taken SWAT quite some time to get there.  

[Motor City Sonics]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Yes, but being a rural school/town, it might have taken SWAT quite some time to get there.  

Wait, I just saw the post that they have a SWAT unit?   THEN WHERE WERE THEY?    Oh my god, you talk about failing.   Yeah, lets hear more of that macho Texas bullshit. 

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, pfife said:

whitlock out with a hot take that (paraphrasing) the cops basically said ah screw it b/c liberals hurt their feefees

"I'm not making excuses for the cops but [insert excuses here]"

[Tiger337]

I don't think you can place any blame oln the cops based on that video.  You can't just let people do the cops job in a shooting incident.  That's what the gun nuts are always suggesting we should do and I am vehemently opposed to that.  

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think you can place any blame oln the cops based on that video.  You can't just let people do the cops job in a shooting incident.  That's what the gun nuts are always suggesting we should do and I am vehemently opposed to that.  

I think the parents' issue is: why are the cops not going in to engage the shooter and rescue children while he is inside murdering them? And if the cops are not going to go in to do it, someone has to go in to stop the guy and/or rescue children. Otherwise the shooter is going to murder all the children.

 

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think you can place any blame oln the cops based on that video.  You can't just let people do the cops job in a shooting incident.  That's what the gun nuts are always suggesting we should do and I am vehemently opposed to that.  

I get it. But it almost feels like the criticism of the video is tied in with the fact that we are now learning that the cops weren't doing their job well in this moment 

[mtutiger]

Just now, chasfh said:

I think the parents' issue is: why are the cops not going in to engage the shooter and rescue children while he is inside murdering them? And if the cops are not going to go in to do it, someone has to go in to stop the guy and/or rescue children. Otherwise the shooter is going to murder all the children.

 

Exactly. The criticism of the video is a second order effect of the cops, it would appear, not adequately handling this situation.

[Motown Bombers]

I guess every Texas Ranger isn't a Chuck Norris? 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think the parents' issue is: why are the cops not going in to engage the shooter and rescue children while he is inside murdering them? And if the cops are not going to go in to do it, someone has to go in to stop the guy and/or rescue children. Otherwise the shooter is going to murder all the children.

 

I definitely empathize with the parents, but we don't know what happened.  It's hard to believe they were just standing around nothing while this guy was inside  shooting a bunch of little kids.  Were some of them inside and the parents just didn't know it?     

Edited May 26, 2022 by Tiger337

[mtutiger]

 

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I guess every Texas Ranger isn't a Chuck Norris? 

People don't understand much about how emergency response training works. They don't train people to be heroes, they train them to secure situations and then use resources and tactics to end situations as safely as possible. When responders are in situations where they cannot act with *relative* safety to themselves, they wait for reinforcements. That is the nature of the training. Even a swat team is no collection of John Rambos. Again - too fricking many movies banging around inside people's head instead of reality. 

Again, that is why the idea that the answer to people with guns is more people with guns, whether civilians or SWAT teams, is so absolutely ignorant. The 82nd Airborne is never going to be on 30 seconds call in your neighborhood. NEVER. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

this may be a little unfair. It is a basic tenet of 1st responder training not to allow more people to go into a dangerous area. If the police were not responding the situation in the building adequately that is completely open to any fair criticism, but not keeping more people from entering it.

Similarly, it'd be confusing for cops to show up to a situation where the first gunman has been joined by a "good guy" or two.  Now what do the cops do?  3 people brandishing weapons, probably from 3 different spots, and no idea who is which side or the other.

As far as this specific situation is concerned, it sounds like there is plenty of vetting yet to do as far as what exactly happened.