Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Motor City Sonics]

Kids have walked out at Oxford High School as a protest. 

Maybe every school kid should walk out until something, ANYTHING is done.  

[smr-nj]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Kids have walked out at Oxford High School as a protest. 

Maybe every school kid should walk out until something, ANYTHING is done.  

Yes… there are many doing this country wide. Good for them…. Let’s listen to the kids who are actually the ones the guns are pointed at… and let’s find a way to actually address their VERY real fears.  
 

And, God willing, please have their elected representatives in Washington grow a pair, and do the right thing.

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, casimir said:

Similarly, it'd be confusing for cops to show up to a situation where the first gunman has been joined by a "good guy" or two.  Now what do the cops do?  3 people brandishing weapons, probably from 3 different spots, and no idea who is which side or the other.

As far as this specific situation is concerned, it sounds like there is plenty of vetting yet to do as far as what exactly happened.

I'd think at that point they would have to assume multiple bad guys, right? If they can't identify exactly who the extra armed people are and what their purpose is, what else could they do?

[gehringer_2]

21 minutes ago, casimir said:

Similarly, it'd be confusing for cops to show up to a situation where the first gunman has been joined by a "good guy" or two.  Now what do the cops do?  3 people brandishing weapons, probably from 3 different spots, and no idea who is which side or the other.

As far as this specific situation is concerned, it sounds like there is plenty of vetting yet to do as far as what exactly happened.

There is a larger point though, regardless of whether these cops turn out to have acted well or badly, the basic expectation is wrong. You can put the best SWAT team in the world on the site and it doesn't change that the perp has all the initiative, the good guys have no visibility into what is happening inside. Every tactical choice is fraught with danger in a hostage situation. There is simply no way you can expect a good resolution out of a situation like this - by the time it happens you are already too little and too late no matter what resources you think you have.

There is ONE way to stop these - eliminate the potential perps by taking better care of people in the society, and eliminate the weapons they can get their hands on if you do miss one. One and only ONE answer. The rest is pure bullshit.

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

17 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Kids have walked out at Oxford High School as a protest. 

Maybe every school kid should walk out until something, ANYTHING is done.  

If there was only one entrance, they could have prevented them from walking out. 

[RatkoVarda]

the video is gut wrenching

the police should never allow more people to enter an active shooting scene, lest they be shot

we should wait and see what was going on, but at this point the best you can say about the "official" version of events is that there is a lot of confusion/fog of war going on; the worst you can say calls for too much speculation

[casimir]

16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

There is ONE way to stop these - eliminate the potential perps by taking better care of people in the society, and eliminate the weapons they can get their hands on if you do miss one. One and only ONE answer. The rest is pure bullshit.

Absolutely.  But nothing will be done on either front.

[casimir]

22 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I'd think at that point they would have to assume multiple bad guys, right? If they can't identify exactly who the extra armed people are and what their purpose is, what else could they do?

Exactly.  What else can they do?  Ain't like everybody will call time out together so that everybody can declare what their intentions are.

[pfife]

that's the part that is really discouraging is ok yeah I get it guns are super controversial and unlikely to get banned.  But we have one side who by default wants to help w/ mental illness and another that blames it for every one of these so why can't we do something on that?

Besides the lack of what seems like plausible results, one side effect of the status quo is continued marginalization and demonization of mentally ill folks. 

[casimir]

Maybe the NRA should be allowed one and only one entrance/exit into their convention this weekend?

Maybe, once they've ensured that all inside have abided by the no weapons mandate, maybe they could let someone through the convention center with several AR-15s?

[casimir]

And, oh, by the way, we think there's a teacher shortage now?  Just wait.

[RatkoVarda]

Just now, pfife said:

that's the part that is really discouraging is ok yeah I get it guns are super controversial and unlikely to get banned.  But we have one side who by default wants to help w/ mental illness and another that blames it for every one of these so why can't we do something on that?

Besides the lack of what seems like plausible results, one side effect of the status quo is continued marginalization and demonization of mentally ill folks. 

GOP cannot allow government (especially the federal government) to be seen as a positive force in people's lives

If the government can help address problems, then maybe GOP membership will start wanting that

Instead they preach nihilism bonded to "other"ism : you cannot have anything because the "other" might get something too; basically the GOP has trained its people to reject programs that might help themselves, because they know the "other" might get the same help, and they cannot stomach that

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, pfife said:

that's the part that is really discouraging is ok yeah I get it guns are super controversial and unlikely to get banned.  But we have one side who by default wants to help w/ mental illness and another that blames it for every one of these so why can't we do something on that?

Besides the lack of what seems like plausible results, one side effect of the status quo is continued marginalization and demonization of mentally ill folks. 

Mental health, as always, is always a talking point specially designed to run out the clock until the next outrage that overtakes the newscycle. For that matter, the "hardening schools" talking points fit the same purpose.

It's a lot more politically convenient to trot these out than for politicians to explicitly say they don't care about the victims of these tragedies.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tigerbomb13]

21 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

What an absolute abomination of a governor. And he will get re-elected. 

[oblong]

How about people with "mental health challenges", whatever that is, can't buy guns?

How  you determine that, who knows.  Maybe we should require a note from a doctor who has done specific types of tests and will certify to that under penalty of perjury.

Of course we know how well that will go over because guns are "god given rights dammit"

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

25 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

What an absolute abomination of a governor. And he will get re-elected. 

At very least, Beto is going down giving it everything he has.

[RatkoVarda]

30 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

What an absolute abomination of a governor. And he will get re-elected. 

win in a landslide.

same guy who let Texans freeze and destroyed billions in produce to catch zero illegals

[Motown Bombers]

 

[romad1]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

How about people with "mental health challenges", whatever that is, can't buy guns?

How  you determine that, who knows.  Maybe we should require a note from a doctor who has done specific types of tests and will certify to that under penalty of perjury.

Of course we know how well that will go over because guns are "god given rights dammit"

 

My position as a gun owner who has built more than one AR by myself (way too easy to do that).  

• You need personal liability insurance to own a firearm
• You are obligated to keep them under lock and key
• If you can't rent a car you can't buy a guy
• Background checks to which you self-certify annually. 
• Fees for the background checks should fund some sort of mental health clearing house. 
• No ghost guns allowed
• Federal Tax stamps for ARs of any kind (these are required for fully automatic weapons and silencers now). 

I could think of a few more.  The nutters who are into this for boogaloo Civil War won't like all that. 

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

And, oh, by the way, we think there's a teacher shortage now?  Just wait.

Yup.

Can't be trusted to teach history, but also, you need to arm up.

[mtutiger]

What a mess.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

So the gunman had a "mental health issue" (allegedly, probably just to try get through this as quickly as possible until the next mass gun shooting in Texas), but was still able to legally purchase two AR-15s, one on his 18th birthday and one a few days after?

[mtutiger]

 

[antrat]

If only that teacher had an AR-15 strapped on her shoulder while teaching those kids.

This tragedy would not have happened.