Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, pfife said:

C-Span caller saying the way to stop school shooting is to hide lazer pens under desks so the students can blind the shooter.    Also suggested sending them to Ukraine to use against the Russians.

Things are getting really good-faithy in this gun violence national discussion

Do they realize that the shooter can just spray bullets all around without looking?   

[chasfh]

I don’t see how you get a workforce that is 75% women to agree to arm themselves in preparation for working with children all day. Arming teachers is an intellectually and morally bankrupt idea that is dead in the water.

Besides, what good is arming teachers gonna do, anyway? The entire Uvalde police department was not only armed, but purportedly trained in engaging active shooters, and look how much good that did.

[CMRivdogs]

My dumb idea of the day is to impose a tax on ammunition sales. Make it something like 20% of a cost per round. Also allow it like Michigan's bottle tax...a portion can be refundable when you return the spent casings.

 

[CMRivdogs]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

My dumb idea of the day is to impose a tax on ammunition sales. Make it something like 20% of a cost per round. Also allow it like Michigan's bottle tax...a portion can be refundable when you return the spent casings.

 

I'd even set it up to only have ammunition available at a state run establishment like Virginia's ABC stores.

[oblong]

I would ban the sale of guns on credit.  Has to be a cash or direct payment transaction.

 

[pfife]

I think ammo tax is a great idea.

I remember a bit Chris Rock had, years before he became a receptacle for Will Smith's hand, about making ammo super ridiculously expensive.  I remember it b/c it made so much sense to me when he said it.

I'm sure hack court would say that ammo counts under the 2nd amendment though.

Edited June 3, 2022 by pfife

[chasfh]

The only real problem I can think of with super high taxes on guns or ammo would be a thriving black market in stolen guns and ammo.

[Edman85]

40 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t see how you get a workforce that is 75% women to agree to arm themselves in preparation for working with children all day. Arming teachers is an intellectually and morally bankrupt idea that is dead in the water.

Besides, what good is arming teachers gonna do, anyway? The entire Uvalde police department was not only armed, but purportedly trained in engaging active shooters, and look how much good that did.

 

A teacher is going to need to be paid a heckuva lot more than 50K or whatever they make these days if we are going to put that on them.

[oblong]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

The only real problem I can think of with super high taxes on guns or ammo would be a thriving black market in stolen guns and ammo.

Then you can arrest those people as criminals.

I don't see it as a problem that's not already here.

 

[chasfh]

Just now, Edman85 said:

 

A teacher is going to need to be paid a heckuva lot more than 50K or whatever they make these days if we are going to put that on them.

Either that or you would have to raise teacher pay by 10K or 20K on average to convince men who like carrying guns to become teachers.

[chasfh]

Just now, oblong said:

Then you can arrest those people as criminals.

I don't see it as a problem that's not already here.

 

Super high taxes would make it even worse because then ordinary clean people with jobs would start gravitating to the black market for guns, instead of going to the local gun store and paying all those taxes.

[CMRivdogs]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The only real problem I can think of with super high taxes on guns or ammo would be a thriving black market in stolen guns and ammo.

As if there isn't one now.

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

As if there isn't one now.

The higher the taxes, the worse it would get.

[oblong]

31 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Super high taxes would make it even worse because then ordinary clean people with jobs would start gravitating to the black market for guns, instead of going to the local gun store and paying all those taxes.

I'll forgo the lost revenue if it makes it harder for someone to get a gun like this.  If it means out of 20 mass shooters only 17 successfully get one on the black market then we have 3 fewer mass shootings.  The goal of eliminating mass shootings is pie in the sky but if you pass laws that reduce it even by 1 then it's all worth it.  

 

 

[Motown Bombers]

How do you find these black market guns? I lived in Detroit up through the mid 2000's and I had no idea how to get a gun other than through legal channels. Was I just not street wise enough? I knew where I could find weed and hookers but that was it. This isn't like Breaking Bad where Saul Goodman knows a guy who knows a guy. They aren't just sold on street corners. 

[smr-nj]

1 hour ago, pfife said:

C-Span caller saying the way to stop school shooting is to hide lazer pens under desks so the students can blind the shooter.    Also suggested sending them to Ukraine to use against the Russians.

Things are getting really good-faithy in this gun violence national discussion

Every time I think I can’t get more despondent over this societal mindset re:guns/shootings/schools, somebody proves me wrong.

[chasfh]

27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

How do you find these black market guns? I lived in Detroit up through the mid 2000's and I had no idea how to get a gun other than through legal channels. Was I just not street wise enough? I knew where I could find weed and hookers but that was it. This isn't like Breaking Bad where Saul Goodman knows a guy who knows a guy. They aren't just sold on street corners. 

Jack up the taxes on guns and ammo and a lot more people are going to be motivated to find out how to get a cheaper gun on the black market.

[chasfh]

I understand that some folks here are now thinking that I believe higher taxes on guns and ammo is stupid and will never work, even though I never said as much.

I don't think that. I do believe that guns should be expensive and hard to obtain. All I'm saying is that if taxes on guns and ammo go up by a whole lot, they're going to have to deal with the dramatic expansion of the black market that is practically certain to occur in its wake.

You could probably say the same thing about making it harder to buy guns, something I totally support as well. If they decided to make buying a gun a lot harder by enacting measures like stricter acquisition standards or mandatory gun education or renewable licensing or anything along those lines, I believe that even if they were to not raise the price of guns by a single penny, the black market would dramatically expand under that circumstance as well.

Edited June 3, 2022 by chasfh

[smr-nj]

So, then throw money and manpower into the federal response to tracking black market gun industries/perpetrators. They’re criminal enterprises, and need to be persued, much as organized crime families were.

And I doubt if they’re as smart/organized as they were.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

So, then throw money and manpower into the federal response to tracking black market gun industries/perpetrators. They’re criminal enterprises, and need to be persued, much as organized crime families were.

And I doubt if they’re as smart/organized as they were.

That's one way to approach it. I'm not sure how much they put into it now.

They would also need to put resources into stopping straw purchase sales, as well as identifying unscrupulous or corrupt legally-licensed gun dealers who flout the law now and certainly would then.

[Edman85]

The number of state laws that are just giving people carte blanche to load up on guns that have been passed the last decade is staggering. I've been gathering a list for my own edification.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The number of state laws that are just giving people carte blanche to load up on guns that have been passed the last decade is staggering. I've been gathering a list for my own edification.

I would love to see that list. 

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would love to see that list. 

You can probably start with the states in red. 

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I understand that some folks here are now thinking that I believe higher taxes on guns and ammo is stupid and will never work, even though I never said as much.

I don't think that. I do believe that guns should be expensive and hard to obtain....

I'm going to add in annual registration fees. Make it cost restrictive to own more than one gun. 

A normal annual registration fee for the ownership of one gun (let's say a handgun for personal protection, under lock & key in the house), but rapidly rising annual fees per each additional gun owned. 

To help pay for the annual "mental health checkup" on ALL gun owners. To include an IRS audit (to make certain said gun owner is financially healthy and not ready to go off on people because of a pending bankruptcy or similar), FBI audit (to make certain someone hasn't been radicalized by online extremists and also to do a checkup on proper lock & key). And a mental health checkup by a professional. In fact, I believe all of these should be required PRIOR to the purchase of ANY gun by ANYONE.

Also, an automatic 10-year Federal prison sentence for the ownership of military-level equipment by non-military personnel. To include body armor, armor piercing rounds, any magazines with a greater than 8 round capacity, bump stocks, and any weapon with a muzzle velocity higher than 1,200 feet per second. This last one eliminates AR-15's and any similar military quality weapon. 

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a hunting .22 is? Roughly 1,100 feet per second.

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a 9mm is? Roughly 1,200 feet per second.

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a 44 Magnum is? Roughly 1,200 feet per second.

 

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of an AR-15 is? Roughly 3,300 feet per second. This causes, on the  battlefield, sonic damage in the wound area; in other words, inoperable wounds. Certain death.

Downgrade muzzle velocity and high capacity magazines and you downgrade all of these mass shootings.

PS: Republicans don't want you to know that...

Edited June 3, 2022 by 1984Echoes

[Archie]

36 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm going to add in annual registration fees. Make it cost restrictive to own more than one gun. 

A normal annual registration fee for the ownership of one gun (let's say a handgun for personal protection, under lock & key in the house), but rapidly rising annual fees per each additional gun owned. 

To help pay for the annual "mental health checkup" on ALL gun owners. To include an IRS audit (to make certain said gun owner is financially healthy and not ready to go off on people because of a pending bankruptcy or similar), FBI audit (to make certain someone hasn't been radicalized by online extremists and also to do a checkup on proper lock & key). And a mental health checkup by a professional. In fact, I believe all of these should be required PRIOR to the purchase of ANY gun by ANYONE.

Also, an automatic 10-year Federal prison sentence for the ownership of military-level equipment by non-military personnel. To include body armor, armor piercing rounds, any magazines with a greater than 8 round capacity, bump stocks, and any weapon with a muzzle velocity higher than 1,200 feet per second. This last one eliminates AR-15's and any similar military quality weapon. 

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a hunting .22 is? Roughly 1,100 feet per second.

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a 9mm is? Roughly 1,200 feet per second.

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of a 44 Magnum is? Roughly 1,200 feet per second.

 

Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity of an AR-15 is? Roughly 3,300 feet per second. This causes, on the  battlefield, sonic damage in the wound area; in other words, inoperable wounds. Certain death.

Downgrade muzzle velocity and high capacity magazines and you downgrade all of these mass shootings.

PS: Republicans don't want you to know that...

What is a hunting .22?  Do you mean a .22 LR ammo?  I know you pulled this info off of some democrat website but I can tell you this is moronic at best.  It all depends on where the human body is shot at. If the human body is shot is the chest with any of those it is likely deadly.  All this about inoperable wounds is low IQ democrat bullshit.