03/22/2023 1:05 pm EDT Atlanta Braves vs Detroit Tigers

[Hongbit]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 I know he has to be on the team because that is just the way it is, but he does block people by limiting roster flexibility.  They have a lot of role players who will be in various platoons and match-ups and having an extra player that can play in the field would help.  

I’ll change my tune if AJ starts playing him every other day but that’s not going to happen.  He’s going to get maybe 2 starts a week at DH and an occasional PH spot here and there.   

Edited March 22, 2023 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

Yup. Easy answer is to platoon him with Carpenter. Reserve his AB for LHP and RHP that don't come inside. There's your 2 starts a week. Let Kerry feast on the rest of the RHP.

Edited March 22, 2023 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

So how do we feel about the starting pitching? Right now I'm:

Manning: I'm seeing a mid rotation guy. I think he could be dominant if he had a couple more mph, but I think lack of top level velo FB limits the ceiling for his pitching style. And needs to stay healthy

Boyd: Should keep us in most games he starts - a 500 kind of guy.

ERod: This Spring we see why they gave him the money. They should have a shot in the games he starts

Turnbull: Above average starter if his body holds together.

Lorenzen: now a question mark.

so basically decent potential but too many health question marks (what else is new?)

I wouldn't want to make any judgement calls at this point because you know Fetter will tinker in season and all along (from start to finish... pardon the double entendre...).

I think Turnbull was well above average when he left off (to TJ) and appears tp have gotten back to that. So I'm hoping well above average for the year (like maybe a decent #2 starter?).

I always viewed Boyd as a 5th starter guy but with his added pitch/ experience maybe he can be a plus #3, which I also would consider well above average.

Manning is an unknown to me simply because i don't know if he gets better/ stronger as the season goes along... if Fetter tinkers with him and he starts reaching higher heights... or this is as good as it gets. No clue how this will turn out.

Lorenzen...? Just hoping he can keep us in some games as a 5th. Barely average or even less than.

I like where eRod is right now.

As usual... health is a huge thing for this team and for each of these starters...

[casimir]

16 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Baddoo taking a walk and being disruptive on the bases to manufacture a run. Carpenter with 3 HRs. Meanwhile Veirling showing questionable CF play not many LH pitchers in the AL Central. Maybe Baddoo and Carpenter do both make the team.....

Manning with a pick-off after a lead-off single in the 3rd.

But also not as many games vs AL Central teams as in the past.

[casimir]

15 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Kreidler looks like the new Don Kelly.

Its the 32 on his back.

[casimir]

12 hours ago, Hongbit said:

No.  This is 100% a rebuilding year with no chance of being competitive in September.  He’s not going to be playing everyday and won’t be blocking anyone.  He will probably settle into a glorified pinch hitter role for much of the year and I can’t see how he will cost us games.  Let him finish on his terms.  

Disagree.  If Cabrera didn't have a $30M salary this season, he wouldn't be on a MLB roster.  He cannot hit well.  He cannot play defense at all.  He cannot run well.  There will be baseball players in Toledo that are better than Cabrera.  Now, you may not personally give a rip about those guys in Toledo, but to say he isn't blocking anyone is completely false.

[Hongbit]

27 minutes ago, casimir said:

Disagree.  If Cabrera didn't have a $30M salary this season, he wouldn't be on a MLB roster.  He cannot hit well.  He cannot play defense at all.  He cannot run well.  There will be baseball players in Toledo that are better than Cabrera.  Now, you may not personally give a rip about those guys in Toledo, but to say he isn't blocking anyone is completely false.

There’s nobody that has any part in our plans for the future whose development would benefit from being the last guy on the bench.  They would be better off playing every day in Toledo.   

If we are being honest about blocking,  Matt Boyd and Michael Lorenzen are probably blocking future talent more than Miggy.  They are roster fillers and won’t be part of the long term plans in a few years.   There are guys in Toledo or Erie that very well could be part of the future rotation that may benefit from pitching up here every 5th day.   I’m not suggesting this idea at all but blocking only really matters if you have a bunch of real prospects that could benefit more from playing in the show.  

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

There’s nobody that has any part in our plans for the future whose development would benefit from being the last guy on the bench.  They would be better off playing every day in Toledo.   

If we are being honest about blocking,  Matt Boyd and Michael Lorenzen are probably blocking future talent more than Miggy.  They are roster fillers and won’t be part of the long term plans in a few years.   There are guys in Toledo or Erie that very well could be part of the future rotation that may benefit from pitching up here every 5th day.   I’m not suggesting this idea at all but blocking only really matters if you have a bunch of real prospects that could benefit more from playing in the show.  

Specifically who are Boyd and Lorenzen blocking from pitching in Detroit this season?  Mize?  Skubal?

[Sports_Freak]

13 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

He's an embarrassment to himself, the team, and Major League baseball at this point.

I've been arguing for this for at least two years.

But it won't happen. "Dignity" and all. Plus the last year of his contract. Player/ team/ fan relations...

I'll live.

But he is going out as pitiful.

Kinda reminds me of the Babe Ruth videos when he was near the end. I always thought they were sad, just a shell of what he once was. Cabrera's Triple Crown season will always be remembered, a sure first ballot hall of famer.

[Hongbit]

28 minutes ago, casimir said:

Specifically who are Boyd and Lorenzen blocking from pitching in Detroit this season?  Mize?  Skubal?

Who is Cabrera blocking? 

[gehringer_2]

45 minutes ago, casimir said:

Specifically who are Boyd and Lorenzen blocking from pitching in Detroit this season?  Mize?  Skubal?

I suppose one can argue that Wentz is about as ready as he will ever be, but the reality is that given just ordinary DL rates for the staff (as opposed to the disaster last season), Wentz and Faedo are probably both going to get plenty of opportunity to pitch with the big club this season. I don't think you can say starting pitchers at AAA are effectively blocked until you get to at least the 8th or 9th man down.

OTOH, unless they bite the bullet and take both Carpenter and Baddoo, Cabrera will be blocking the last OF cut who otherwise would be sharing the DH. But that's sort of what I don't get anyway - Cabrera is not going to play nearly everyday, so someone else is going to be picking up a good number of DH ABs. I'd just as soon have that be a LHB as Haase - who seems to be the next most likely candidate. So if it were me, instead of an additional IF I'd bring Carpenter even if Baddoo makes the team. But Hinch's obession with having a Swiss Army lineup means that won't happen.

Edited March 23, 2023 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

24 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Who is Cabrera blocking? 

Anybody that can perform actual baseball functions on the field.  It'll be Baddoo or Carpenter or an infielder.

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I suppose one can argue that Wentz is about as ready as he will ever be, but the reality is that given just ordinary DL rates for the staff (as opposed to the disaster last season), Wentz and Faedo are probably both going to get plenty of opportunity to pitch with the big club this season. I don't think you can say starting pitchers at AAA are effectively blocked until you get to at least the 8th or 9th man down.

OTOH, unless they bite the bullet and take both Carpenter and Baddoo, Cabrera will be blocking the last OF cut who otherwise would be sharing the DH. But that's sort of what I don't get anyway - Cabrera is not going to play nearly everyday, so someone else is going to be picking up a good number of DH ABs. I'd just as soon have that be a LHB as Haase - who seems to be the next most likely candidate. So if it were me, instead of an additional IF I'd bring Carpenter even if Baddoo makes the team. But Hinch's obession with having a Swiss Army lineup means that won't happen.

I would say Wentz being ready as an MLB SP is debatable.

I would say Cabrera being an MLB baseball player is laughable.

[Tiger337]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

So how do we feel about the starting pitching? Right now I'm:

Manning: I'm seeing a mid rotation guy. I think he could be dominant if he had a couple more mph, but I think lack of top level velo FB limits the ceiling for his pitching style. And needs to stay healthy

Boyd: Should keep us in most games he starts - a 500 kind of guy.

ERod: This Spring we see why they gave him the money. They should have a shot in the games he starts

Turnbull: Above average starter if his body holds together.

Lorenzen: now a question mark.

so basically decent potential but too many health question marks (what else is new?)

Like 80% of the teams in baseball!  But it's better than being in the bottom 20%!

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

I would say Wentz being ready as an MLB SP is debatable.

LOL - I'd refine it to say that with him and Faedo there is more question whether they will ever be MLB starter material than that more time at AAA changes much for either.

[alex]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Like 80% of the teams in baseball!  But it's better than being in the bottom 20%!

Yes, have said it before and will say it again: Depth on the roster this day and age is of utmost importance. Gone are the days of even 3 SPs on a team pitching 200 innings. You need 8-10 SPs today ready for 150 IP each.

Also gone are the days of a team with 6-7 position players starting 150+ games each. We remember when we could rattle off good teams starting lineups.

Because of inevitable injuries and the league (and union) not quite up to snuff in understanding the workloads that today's players endure on their bodies (conditioning big time, practice time and the games, etc.) this will be the case (with occasional outliers) for awhile.

IMHO, a few lesser overall games on the schedule (ex 150-155 maybe), more players on the roster (I would say 27-28, yet it took sooo long to get it to 26!!), more days off in season (ex scheduled 7 inning DHs, maybe 2-3 per team) and maybe a few other tweaks would help.

We all want to see the star players and the quality of the games not compromised - there will need to be some changes in the future. All IMHO, of course.

[Hongbit]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

Anybody that can perform actual baseball functions on the field.  It'll be Baddoo or Carpenter or an infielder.

Baddoo’s ability is the only thing keeping him off the team. He’s been given a million chances.  If he can’t make the roster on his own accord with these new rules to help base stealing then he’s not a prospect and is a solid career AAA player.   Can’t block someone like that.  

 

[Tiger337]

Has Baddoo been given a million chances?  He was brought to the majors way too soon because he had to be on the roster as a rule 5 pick.  He did quite well in 2021.  Last year, he struggled.  I'd say he's still a good prospect.  If it weren't for his Rule 5 status, he probably would be debuting this year.  

Edited March 23, 2023 by Tiger337

[mtutiger]

21 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Baddoo taking a walk and being disruptive on the bases to manufacture a run. Carpenter with 3 HRs. Meanwhile Veirling showing questionable CF play not many LH pitchers in the AL Central. Maybe Baddoo and Carpenter do both make the team.....

 

I'm gonna need more than two games post-injury stint to conclude that Vierling goes to AAA. 

Everything the team has messaged would suggest he's a lock.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

Anybody that can perform actual baseball functions on the field.  It'll be Baddoo or Carpenter or an infielder.

Show some respect.  He needs complete his 7-year farewell tour.  He's earned it.  

[alex]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Has Baddoo been given a million chances?  He was brought to the majors way too soon because he had to be on the roster as a rule 5 pick.  He did quite well in 2021.  Last year, he struggled.  I'd say he's still a good prospect.  If it weren't for his Rule 5 status, he probably would be debuting this year.  

Agreed. Heck, he is just a yr older than Tork. Not every decent player is 'good' before age 27-28. All good teams have players that are vets, some cast-offs, etc. We are just trying to get a nucleus of players under say 26 and Baddoo is in that mold and he 'could' be part of a said core/nucleus.

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Has Baddoo been given a million chances?  He was brought to the majors way too soon because he had to be on the roster as a rule 5 pick.  He did quite well in 2021.  Last year, he struggled.  I'd say he's still a good prospect.  If it weren't for his Rule 5 status, he probably would be debuting this year.  

Baddoo needs to hit, but if he does, he simply brings tools that other guys do not bring to bear offensively; he takes walks, he can steal bases, he's generally disruptive. Very few players on the roster can do this, and that adds value to carrying him.

It's tough because Carpenter has probably done enough this ST to make the team as well, but unless they plan on carrying just one IF on the bench, which doesn't seem likely, or unless Cabrera has a freak accident sometime between now and Opening Day, they'll have to choose between one or the other.

Edited March 23, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm gonna need more than two games post-injury stint to conclude that Vierling goes to AAA. 

Everything the team has messaged would suggest he's a lock.

Don't disagree that there is a commitment there - I'm just hoping it's justified. If he hits it won't matter but but I was dismayed by what I have seen of his fielding - hopefully new team jitters or something.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Baddoo needs to hit, but if he does, he simply brings tools that other guys do not bring to bear offensively; he takes walks, he can steal bases, he's generally disruptive. Very few players on the roster can do this, and that adds value to carrying him.

It's tough because Carpenter has probably done enough this ST to make the team as well, but unless they plan on carrying just one IF on the bench, which doesn't seem likely, or unless Cabrera has a freak accident sometime between now and Opening Day, they'll have to choose between one or the other.

True, which is why Cabrera does block players.  I'd rather see Meadows/Carpenter get the DH at bats and have an extra outfielder for roster flexibility.  

[casimir]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Show some respect.  He needs complete his 7-year farewell tour.  He's earned it.  

I don't know if you pulled 7 out of nowhere or if you were dialed in with that.  But his last 6 seasons have been crap and this season won't be much better.

As far as showing respect, sure, he had a great career.  Hall of fame, first ballot.  Lots of great memories.  But he's completely worthless on an active roster.  People bag on Hinch for moving position players around and searching for interchangeability.  But he has to in part because Cabrera creates a roster crunch.