chasfh Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, Hongbit said: No. This is 100% a rebuilding year with no chance of being competitive in September. He’s not going to be playing everyday and won’t be blocking anyone. He will probably settle into a glorified pinch hitter role for much of the year and I can’t see how he will cost us games. Let him finish on his terms. This isn't exactly right. Because of Miggy, we won't be able to keep both Baddoo and Carpenter because we can't give the one who's not playing LF enough at bats at DH to keep him around, so we have to send one of them down to TOL where he won't really benefit from developing at the level they need to be at. They only way we can keep Miggy around and he won't be a prospect block is if he goes on the 60-day IL, which I actually believe there's a good chance will happen. That said, I do agree we simply cannot cut Miggy, boot him, give him the gate, etc. You simply don't do that to an inner-circle Hall of Famer who's going to wear your cap in Cooperstown, which is basically why Papa Doc signed him up for life. It also sends a terrible message to the rest of the guys—if they can treat one of the best players in history so shabbily, how badly would they treat me, a not-great (which is most of them), when it comes right down to it? So an outright release against his wishes is a complete non-starter. Miggy could start out 0-for-100 and they still won't clear a roster spot unless he goes voluntarily. Edited March 23, 2023 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Obviously Lee was just joking... But I gave you some love for this post anyways because... It just all makes so much sense... I wasn't realy joking. Cabrera was a legend for 9 years which was a lot of fun. He's been an old out of shape replacement level DH for 6 years which is frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 If nothing else, our bitching and moaning at each other is ready to break camp and start the season. MTF is gonna to give JerkSoxForum.com a helluva fight this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Hongbit said: It’s not about Cabrera being better or worse than anybody. He’s not. We are talking about the 26th man on a team that’s best hopes for the year would be finishing 3rd place in worst division in baseball. It’s an insignificant position and even more so since we have no legit MLB prospects that would be helped by playing once a week instead of playing everyday in Toledo. Look I agree it would be a completely different story all around if we had a competitive team. We don’t. As for the pitchers, we have guys that really have no plans in the future when their competitive window should open. Boyd and Lorenzen only long term value is if they can pitch well enough the first half to garner anything in low flyer type prospects for them at the trade deadline. In theory, Wentz, Madden, and Flores getting innings could all benefit the future better. In reality, the last two aren’t ready for it yet but I do suspect that they both will be up for a bit before end of year for a taste. I don't understand complaining about Boyd and Lorenzen and at the same time giving St. Miggy a pass. But, hey, enjoy watching him flail away this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, HeyAbbott said: I don't think I could have said this better. On a competitive team, he should have been cut in 2017. He has been a AAAA player on his very best days for 6 years. For me, enough is enough. The casual fan will buy a ticket for the Miggy sideshow. That is why he is will be on the team. Really? How will the casual fan know which game Cabrera will be playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, casimir said: I don't understand complaining about Boyd and Lorenzen and at the same time giving St. Miggy a pass. But, hey, enjoy watching him flail away this season. I'm not sure how anyone who watched the 2022 Model Detroit Tigers could complain about pitching depth in general.... they had to start 17 guys last year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'm not sure how anyone who watched the 2022 Model Detroit Tigers could complain about pitching depth in general.... they had to start 17 guys last year! Yeah, I don't quite get it either. They mentioned 17 on the broadcast yesterday. 17 different SPs. In 1984, they used only 14 Ps. I know its a different game know, but good freaking grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, chasfh said: if they can treat one of the best players in history so shabbily, OTOH, your more competitive players could well come to resent him taking that spot and underperforming if the team were to start playing any competitive ball. I'd guess you get a generation gap among the players with regard to how shabby it feels to cut a non-performing player who has been stubborn about sticking around past his sell date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: OTOH, your more competitive players could well come to resent him taking that spot and underperforming if the team were to start playing any competitive ball. I'd guess you get a generation gap among the players with regard to how shabby it feels to cut a non-performing player who has been stubborn about sticking around past his sell date. Ew..... that's a scenario nobody thought of. Wouldn't that be quite the conundrum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 41 minutes ago, chasfh said: ... That said, I do agree we simply cannot cut Miggy, boot him, give him the gate, etc. You simply don't do that to an inner-circle Hall of Famer who's going to wear your cap in Cooperstown, ... So an outright release against his wishes is a complete non-starter. Miggy could start out 0-for-100 and they still won't clear a roster spot unless he goes voluntarily. On this part (all of it, not just the bolded part) I agree with. The only way to "early retire" Miggy is if would agree to it. Oh how I wish Miggy would take a buyout (100% pay out of course, but I mean the roster spot) to become a Bench Coach/ Goodwill Ambassador. But he wants to play, so he will. As much as his body allows... even if he goes 0 for 100. All I can do is bitch about it... and be glad when it's over and done with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 There is also one thing I agree with Hongbit on: We are not playing for 2023, we are playing for 2024. Miggy doesn't matter in that regard, nor do wins/ losses this year. What matters is we fix all our broken players and try to identify who can be a part of a competitive/ playoff team next year. Fix Mize, Skubal and Torkenson. Fix Baez (if he sticks with us next year), Meadows and E-Rod (same as Baez, see if he sticks for the remainder of his contract). If Baez and E-Rod are hot at the deadline, and adamant about opting out, trade them for other futures. Help Greene & Manning to improve their games/ reach higher levels. See what kind of players Vierling/ Maton/ Carpenter/ Parker/ Wentz/ Brieske are... are they pieces of the team? As is? Or does Brieske get pushed to the BP? Same with Faedo... is he a starter/ reliever/ or someone to move on from? How high this year do Madden and Flores rise? Is Wenceel a part of the future? Schoop surely isn't. These and many other questions are the important issues this year. Not wins & losses. To me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Oh how I wish Miggy would take a buyout (100% pay out of course, but I mean the roster spot) Miggy gets paid almost no matter what. In fact I'm going to guess the ONLY way he doesn't get paid is to announce he is retired, which would be a renouncement of this contract. The two practical routes to get him out of the lineup are a DL or for for them to DFA him. Now the last could be messed up because I suppose the really weird thing would be that Miguel agrees it's time to hang them up but then when they waive him some team picks him up off the waiver wire. I guess he would have to go play. Of course given the condition of the knee they can easily attest that he can no longer play for medical reasons and he just retires off the 60dl. Of course he'd have to agree to the latter, he doesn't have to agree with a decision to waive him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, casimir said: I don't understand complaining about Boyd and Lorenzen and at the same time giving St. Miggy a pass. But, hey, enjoy watching him flail away this season. I absolutely wasn’t complaining. You were the one complaining about Miggy and that he was blocking what I deem to be our non-prospects. Actually, I don’t think anyone is being blocked. I used the pitchers as potentially a closer example of it than the guy taking up the very last roster space. Sadly, I think we all will have to enjoy a lot of flailing this year. I really hope that Miggy is much worse than Tork but I think there’s a real chance that Spencer he takes full control of the scepter of Tiger fan anger before the end of the year. Edited March 23, 2023 by Hongbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I absolutely wasn’t complaining. You were the one complaining about Miggy and that he was blocking what I deem to be our non-prospects. I just brought up the pitchers as ones who could potentially be blocking players that actually could be prospects. Sadly, I think we all will have to enjoy a lot of flailing this year. I really hope that Miggy is much worse than Tork but I think there’s a real chance that Spencer he takes full control of the scepter of Tiger fan anger before the end of the year. Well, Cabrera is blocking more qualified baseball players. That's just simply the truth once you strip away the emotion of what might have done in the past. Torkelson is connecting well with the ball in camp. He hit the ball hard last season, BABIP hurt him a bit. He's going to be fine this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: OTOH, your more competitive players could well come to resent him taking that spot and underperforming if the team were to start playing any competitive ball. I'd guess you get a generation gap among the players with regard to how shabby it feels to cut a non-performing player who has been stubborn about sticking around past his sell date. To whatever degree that this might be true, a player is going to bury that feeling deep, deep inside and never let it come out. Never. Ever. Remember, we're talking about 25-year-old marginal major leaguers being blocked by a 40-year-old Hall-of-Fame legend. These kids grew up watching Miggy their entire lives. He was winning a World series when they were in kindergarten. Miggy is a hero to them in a way we, who are 20+ years his senior, can't possibly imagine feeling about him. It is inconceivable to me that they would allow themselves to be seen complaining about it. What is that going to make them look like to their teammates and the coaching staff, many of whom also revere and even love Miggy? An equivalent to this might be you yourself coming up as an on-the-bubble outfielder with the Brewers organization in 1976 and Hank Aaron is keeping you blocked from getting a spot on the team, so you go back to Spokane for another year. You grew up idolizing Hank Aaron. He was the reason you pursued baseball in the first place. Are you really going to dare to whine to the rest of the team and coaches about it? If so, you're one of the few who would take that risk. I know I wouldn't. Edited March 23, 2023 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: There is also one thing I agree with Hongbit on: We are not playing for 2023, we are playing for 2024. Miggy doesn't matter in that regard, nor do wins/ losses this year. What matters is we fix all our broken players and try to identify who can be a part of a competitive/ playoff team next year. Fix Mize, Skubal and Torkenson. Fix Baez (if he sticks with us next year), Meadows and E-Rod (same as Baez, see if he sticks for the remainder of his contract). If Baez and E-Rod are hot at the deadline, and adamant about opting out, trade them for other futures. Help Greene & Manning to improve their games/ reach higher levels. See what kind of players Vierling/ Maton/ Carpenter/ Parker/ Wentz/ Brieske are... are they pieces of the team? As is? Or does Brieske get pushed to the BP? Same with Faedo... is he a starter/ reliever/ or someone to move on from? How high this year do Madden and Flores rise? Is Wenceel a part of the future? Schoop surely isn't. These and many other questions are the important issues this year. Not wins & losses. To me. I would bet that wins and losses mean a lot to players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, casimir said: Torkelson is connecting well with the ball in camp. He hit the ball hard last season, BABIP hurt him a bit. He's going to be fine this season. I hope it happens. There’s nothing I want more from this season than for Tork to develop into a stud ball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I would bet that wins and losses mean a lot to players It’s the second most important thing to most pro ball players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I would bet that wins and losses mean a lot to players Of course they do. But I'm not a player, I'm a fan. I'm giving MY perspective... as a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Christian Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hongbit said: It’s the second most important thing to most pro ball players. The first, in my humble opinion, would be money. Hopefully NOT psychedelic mushrooms! Yeah, I'm a Packers fan but not an Aaron Rodgers fan. His psychedelic mushrooms and his hiding in the dark for four days adventures really turned me off. Now it's baseball season! I don't even know for certain that I'll be able to watch them this season here in the U.P. but I've got my fingers crossed. Let's go Tigers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 21 hours ago, casimir said: Really? How will the casual fan know which game Cabrera will be playing? The casual fan will think that Miggy will be playing every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted March 25, 2023 Author Share Posted March 25, 2023 18 hours ago, HeyAbbott said: The casual fan will think that Miggy will be playing every day. I guess we have different opinions of "casual", but I know what you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 I don't think there are many fans that still think that Cabrera is going to do exciting things at this point. He has been ineffective for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 22 hours ago, HeyAbbott said: The casual fan will think that Miggy will be playing every day. Unless they actually SEE him (on TV or at-the-game, doesn't matter...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.