2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[casimir]

33 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

To think how amazing the 1984 team was. I still don't see they Rays going 35-5

I'd like to see them make a run at it, but of course fall short.

[LongLiveMaroth]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/spencer-torkelson-talks-hitting/

Not much of note here but interesting to see how Tork basically said he doesn't really look at analytics. 

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/spencer-torkelson-talks-hitting/

Not much of note here but interesting to see how Tork basically said he doesn't really look at analytics. 

There may be exeptions, but I'd guess what he says is spot on for most guys - you can't think and hit at the same time. You can use data/mechanics insight in your training/practice away from game play - but everything you do in the box has to have been reduced to simple instinct; see ball - hit ball.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

If they go 24-5, they'll match the '84 Tigers.  

[RandyMarsh]

41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

There may be exeptions, but I'd guess what he says is spot on for most guys - you can't think and hit at the same time. You can use data/mechanics insight in your training/practice away from game play - but everything you do in the box has to have been reduced to simple instinct; see ball - hit ball.

This reminds me of an old Adrian Gonzalez interview from like 10 years ago. This of course was before Astrogate but they brought up how he felt about sign stealing. 

He said something to the effect of hitting is hard enough as it is he doesnt want to look down at the runner on 2b to try to decipher what he is trying to tell him. Just see the ball and try to hit the ball. 

[gehringer_2]

50 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

This reminds me of an old Adrian Gonzalez interview from like 10 years ago. This of course was before Astrogate but they brought up how he felt about sign stealing. 

He said something to the effect of hitting is hard enough as it is he doesnt want to look down at the runner on 2b to try to decipher what he is trying to tell him. Just see the ball and try to hit the ball. 

I think one of the pitfalls for managers and FOs in this era is that players are not dumb, they know what their bosses want to hear, so especially with young players, you probably are going to get a pretty filtered version of what they really think about what management is giving them.  Tork OTOH, is one the guys that appears to have the confidence to say he's doing it his way - which is not necessarily a bad thing - a young JV rejected a lot of the coaching the Tigers tried to give him as well - The best players often know their own games as well or better than their coaches. 

[roarintiger1]

Of the Tiger's 14 position players,  8 are hitting well below the Mendoza line.    What a sad bunch.   

At least in past years, I've been able to wear my Tiger gear into June.   To be honest, I haven't even got it out of the closet yet.

[kdog]

Dead last in the AL in slugging and OPS. 6 homers total; only Cleveland is worst but they have a higher slugging due to doubles and the most walks in the AL.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

If they go 24-5, they'll match the '84 Tigers.  

Add a loss in game 30 for a 24-6 record and I'll be fine with whatever they do...

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, roarintiger1 said:

Of the Tiger's 14 position players,  8 are hitting well below the Mendoza line.    What a sad bunch.   

At least in past years, I've been able to wear my Tiger gear into June.   To be honest, I haven't even got it out of the closet yet.

As long as you bought it.  That's what it's all about!

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, casimir said:

Sure, its early.  But check out these OPS+ numbers.  Its just silly.

Maybe we can get a third baseman like that Parades fellow. Best trade Al made was getting Candy and Parades but he misjudged who was the better player and then traded him because "the rebuild was over ".

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

There may be exeptions, but I'd guess what he says is spot on for most guys - you can't think and hit at the same time. You can use data/mechanics insight in your training/practice away from game play - but everything you do in the box has to have been reduced to simple instinct; see ball - hit ball.

What improvement through analytics is supposed to do is for the hitter to practice committing changes in approach to muscle and reaction memory so you don't have to think about them when you're at the plate in a game.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/spencer-torkelson-talks-hitting/

Not much of note here but interesting to see how Tork basically said he doesn't really look at analytics. 

I think what he's saying in the article is that the staff doesn't going over the numbers in depth with him, but instead give him some high-level tactics that the data indicate that he can work on.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Maybe we can get a third baseman like that Parades fellow. Best trade Al made was getting Candy and Parades but he misjudged who was the better player and then traded him because "the rebuild was over ".

I wonder if Harris would make that same trade.  MeadowsA was certainly the more known quantity and the production he had shown would have certainly been helpful.  Paredes seemed to be more of the "control the strike zone" kind of hitter that Harris speaks of, at least if you take a generic look at SO% and BB%.

Regardless, the deal was made, here we are, where can Harris take it from here?

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, casimir said:

I wonder if Harris would make that same trade.  MeadowsA was certainly the more known quantity and the production he had shown would have certainly been helpful.  Paredes seemed to be more of the "control the strike zone" kind of hitter that Harris speaks of, at least if you take a generic look at SO% and BB%.

Regardless, the deal was made, here we are, where can Harris take it from here?

Interesting question, I don't think he does.

Regarding the bolded, that's really the question. The trade happened, it's over, the guy who executed the trade was fired. It's understandable why fans will ruminate, but it's over now and it's all about where they go from here.

Edited April 12, 2023 by mtutiger

[kdog]

With senstivitity to Meadows condition, he can't be considered part of the Tigers immediate future. You have to work under the assumption that he won't be available the rest of the year and beyond.

And even if does come back, will his power ever return to Tampa form? Hard to see it now.

[RatkoVarda]

Ian Happ signed extension, so poor free agent class this winter gets just a little worse.

[SeattleMike]

46 minutes ago, casimir said:

I wonder if Harris would make that same trade.  MeadowsA was certainly the more known quantity and the production he had shown would have certainly been helpful.  Paredes seemed to be more of the "control the strike zone" kind of hitter that Harris speaks of, at least if you take a generic look at SO% and BB%.

Regardless, the deal was made, here we are, where can Harris take it from here?

I don't think I read one post on here complaining about this trade. I was a big Paredes fan throughout his development, and yet I was happy with the trade. It did annoy me that the Tigers never fully committed to giving Paredes a real chance. 

[casimir]

14 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

I don't think I read one post on here complaining about this trade. I was a big Paredes fan throughout his development, and yet I was happy with the trade. It did annoy me that the Tigers never fully committed to giving Paredes a real chance. 

I'm not going to lie, I didn't complain about it.  It seemed obvious that the Tigers had given up on Paredes, so yeah, you're right, if there's anything to complain about, its that the Tigers gave up on Paredes.  Maybe they thought Candelario was going to be retained, I don't know.

[mtutiger]

It's probably important to consider that Avila was treating 2022 as if it would be a competitive ballclub. In that context, the trade probably made sense strictly from a stat sheet perspective.

It's possible if Harris became GM in 2022, he would have a much different evaluation regarding the ceiling of that ballclub and would have opted to give Paredes ABs in Detroit.

Whether that means we would have gotten this version of Paredes is an open question IMO... all the complaints about the trade never seem to take into account the possibility that Tampa unlocked something the Tigers didn't or couldn't in the previous years.

Edited April 12, 2023 by mtutiger

[Hongbit]

Not sure why everyone is freaking out right now.  Baseball savant Craig Monroe watches BP everyday and is still confident this club can win 90 games. 

[Tiger337]

One thing to remember is that Candelario looked like a pretty good player at the time the trade was made.  His two years prior to the trade were better than what Paredes has done since the trade.  

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

One thing to remember is that Candelario looked like a pretty good player at the time the trade was made.  His two years prior to the trade were better than what Paredes has done since the trade.  

And they resigned Jonathan Schoop...

Fully prepared to eat crow on that one, but that helped box out Paredes quite a bit as well. 

[casimir]

The other aspect is Paredes' development itself.  Would he be best served in Tampa or Detroit?  Which organization has been better at developing young players?  Which situation would have been more amenable to his development?

[Hongbit]

Harris was very clear with his philosophy to build a winning roster.  
 

1) Acquire and retain young players

2) Create a culture of development 

3) The key to everything are batters and pitchers that dominate the strike zone.  

When it comes to the 3rd and most important part, it’s been apparent in the past and is glaringly so at the moment that the cupboard is nearly bare with this type of player.   They may need to overhaul 75% of the 40 man to acquire the talent that fits this model.  We are talking multiple drafts along with many fliers on lower level major and minor league free agents and trades to restock the entire organization.    This could take a while to get right again.    I do like that Harris has a philosophy that he wants to build on that makes sense in modern baseball.  It’s ugly now and things may get even worse before they get better but I like the person they have steering the ship.