2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

The overarching goal of any team is to win, but that goal is also tempered by the reality of roster abilities and likely outcomes. A team constructed in such a way that everyone knows they’re not going to make the playoffs, such as the Tigers, don’t have the same urgency to win this game here 162 times a year, as playoff bubble teams do. So they can manage to other goals, such as keeping players fresh to nurse owies or to last the whole season, or marketing legends way beyond their sell-by dates, while hoping that everyone still puts it together more often than not and wins enough to keep fans happy, all the while not affecting their expected season outcome.

That sounds like a weak excuse for using a sub-par player.  They are 3 1/2 games out of first place and should to be trying to win all the time.  

[Toddwert]

1 minute ago, Toddwert said:

There wasn’t a 3rd baseman who hits above .150 available?

Brandon drury or Justin Turner at 3rd

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

We couldn’t have signed an impact bat this offseason if they wanted to, at least without dramatically overpaying.

It was a crappy year to be mid-tier shopping. I wonder if it will turn out to be an outlier or if teams are getting smarter about keeping their mid-level guys locked up?

[Toddwert]

Nimmo, tapia, hangier, comforto, Kiermaier, Wil Myers’s….. just to name a few

Edited May 19, 2023 by Toddwert

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That sounds like a weak excuse for using a sub-par player.  They are 3 1/2 games out of first place and should to be trying to win all the time.  

yup - they may have known they didn't have a shot at being a 100 win team, but they also had to know this division might be winnable with 80.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

Nimmo, tapia, hangier, comforto, Kiermaier, Wil Myers’s….. just to name a few

Tapia is a nobody. Kiermaier and Myers are not impact bats.

Haniger was 32 and Conforto was an injured 30 year and they both signed with a team in a super cool west coast city that has a puncher's chance of making the playoffs. Are these guys you'd want to overpay in years and money to get them to come here to agree to come to a losing situation in Detroit instead?

Nimmo is the only guy listed I believe could be reasonably hoped to lead a team into the playoffs. Would you really wanted to have signed him for nine or more years?

 

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

That sounds like a weak excuse for using a sub-par player.  They are 3 1/2 games out of first place and should to be trying to win all the time.  

These are guys who are on the roster, sub-par or not, so they're going to play and even start at some point. That's baseball in 2023. I don't think we are in a position to run the same nine guys out there 162 times a year while the other four guys play only when it's garbage time and no time else. I don't even know who those nine guys would be. I don't like it any more than you do, but there we are.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

There wasn’t a 3rd baseman who hits above .150 available?

You mean like Jeimer Candelario?

[Jim Cowan]

Since when is Andy Ibanez hitting .150?

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

These are guys who are on the roster, sub-par or not, so they're going to play and even start at some point. That's baseball in 2023. I don't think we are in a position to run the same nine guys out there 162 times a year while the other four guys play only when it's garbage time and no time else. I don't even know who those nine guys would be. I don't like it any more than you do, but there we are.

What other teams have players as bad as Cabrera who they continue to play on a regular basis?  He's not some role player which a team carries because of his defense or versatilty.  He is useless in every phase of the game.  He is only playing for non-baseball reasons.  There is no baseball reason which can justify his being on the roster.  

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What other teams have players as bad as Cabrera who they continue to play on a regular basis?  He's not some role player which a team carries because of his defense or versatilty.  He is useless in every phase of the game.  He is only playing for non-baseball reasons.  There is no baseball reason which can justify his being on the roster.  

I agree.

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What other teams have players as bad as Cabrera who they continue to play on a regular basis?  He's not some role player which a team carries because of his defense or versatilty.  He is useless in every phase of the game.  He is only playing for non-baseball reasons.  There is no baseball reason which can justify his being on the roster.  

When you consider all the Hall of Famers that got cut by teams back in the day because they would not carry them near the end of their careers even when they were still moderately productive, it's quite the contrast. You can argue that the game today may be of higher quality because the athletes are better, but I'm not sure some of the old time team managements didn't have more competitive drive than today's neo-billionaire owner class.

Or just for the thought experiment to a more recent case - can you even dream that George Steinbrenner would carry a Cabrera on one his Yankee teams? He'd have cut DiMaggio if he were performing at Cabrera's level.

Edited May 19, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Archie]

23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What other teams have players as bad as Cabrera who they continue to play on a regular basis?  He's not some role player which a team carries because of his defense or versatilty.  He is useless in every phase of the game.  He is only playing for non-baseball reasons.  There is no baseball reason which can justify his being on the roster.  

You can't expect him quit or retire. He isn't going to give up $30+ million to help the team and I don't blame him.  This is all on management. They should or could've offered him a front office position or quietly made a deal with him to retire and he would received all his money. He's in his farwell tour now so I don't see anything happening but the hate toward miggy is misguided.  

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

You can't expect him quit or retire. He isn't going to give up $30+ million to help the team and I don't blame him.  This is all on management. They should or could've offered him a front office position or quietly made a deal with him to retire and he would received all his money. He's in his farwell tour now so I don't see anything happening but the hate toward miggy is misguided.  

this is correct, and TBF I don't think there are many voices criticizing Cabrera for taking his money. This is absolutely on the team for not giving him the DFA - I would guess from the reporting he won't accept being DL'd.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

You can't expect him quit or retire. He isn't going to give up $30+ million to help the team and I don't blame him.  This is all on management. They should or could've offered him a front office position or quietly made a deal with him to retire and he would received all his money. He's in his farwell tour now so I don't see anything happening but the hate toward miggy is misguided.  

Miguel Cabrera is never going to take a (serious) front office position. The most I would expect from him is special assistant to the general manager of the Miami Marlins. But mostly, I expect he will retire and that's the last we will see of him until August, 2029.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is correct, and TBF I don't think there are many voices criticizing Cabrera for taking his money. This is absolutely on the team for not giving him the DFA - I would guess from the reporting he won't accept being DL'd.

They must feel they can't effectively market him if they DFA him. The IL is our only hope.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Archie said:

You can't expect him quit or retire. He isn't going to give up $30+ million to help the team and I don't blame him.  This is all on management. They should or could've offered him a front office position or quietly made a deal with him to retire and he would received all his money. He's in his farwell tour now so I don't see anything happening but the hate toward miggy is misguided.  

I don't hate Cabrera or expect him to retire.  Management should have figured out a way to get him off the team. 

I don't really get why fans want a retirement tour,but apparently some do.  Watching him be terrible is not good for his legacy.  It only hurts his legacy and hurts the team. And it's not like it's just one bad year.  This has been going on for a long time.    

[mtutiger]

3 hours ago, Toddwert said:

Nimmo, tapia, hangier, comforto, Kiermaier, Wil Myers’s….. just to name a few

Wil Myers is currently on his way to being run out of Cincinnati lol

[mtutiger]

3 hours ago, Toddwert said:

Brandon drury or Justin Turner at 3rd

Brandon Drury flat out stated after he signed with the Angels that he didn't want to leave the West Coast.

Again, the word "agency" is in "free agency" for a reason. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Tapia is a nobody. Kiermaier and Myers are not impact bats.

Haniger was 32 and Conforto was an injured 30 year and they both signed with a team in a super cool west coast city that has a puncher's chance of making the playoffs. Are these guys you'd want to overpay in years and money to get them to come here to agree to come to a losing situation in Detroit instead?

Nimmo is the only guy listed I believe could be reasonably hoped to lead a team into the playoffs. Would you really wanted to have signed him for nine or more years?

 

In Haniger's case, the Giants are also his hometown team... maybe not the ultimate reason he signed, but I'm guessing it was a selling point.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

In Haniger's case, the Giants are also his hometown team... maybe not the ultimate reason he signed, but I'm guessing it was a selling point.

There may not be a study on this anywhere, but we have all read many anecdotes of players choosing a team even for a bit of discount because it was close to their home. Good quality of life in a place you like living, particularly if you're surrounded by family, is usually more important than making one more dollar.

[mtutiger]

With Cabrera, I do think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he finds himself out of the lineup if he keeps on this current trajectory.. He's prideful and doesn't want to quit, I get that, but there's an inflection point where it may become more prideful to give into reality and gracefully go onto the 60 Day IL.

I don't think we are there yet, but it could happen, particularly if they do kinda remain in shouting distance to first place.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

With Cabrera, I do think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he finds himself out of the lineup if he keeps on this current trajectory.. He's prideful and doesn't want to quit, I get that, but there's an inflection point where it may become more prideful to give into reality and gracefully go onto the 60 Day IL.

I don't think we are there yet, but it could happen, particularly if they do kinda remain in shouting distance to first place.

And the level of pressure may also depend on Carpenter and possibly Malloy. The alternatives are always a factor.

Edited May 19, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Wil Myers is currently on his way to being run out of Cincinnati lol

Fun fact on Wil Myers: His OPS+ (49) would be worse than everyone in the Tigers lineup.... except for Miguel Cabrera. Including even Jonathan Schoop!

Just not worth losing sleep over missing out on him. It just isn't.

[RandyMarsh]

23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't hate Cabrera or expect him to retire.  Management should have figured out a way to get him off the team. 

I don't really get why fans want a retirement tour,but apparently some do.  Watching him be terrible is not good for his legacy.  It only hurts his legacy and hurts the team. And it's not like it's just one bad year.  This has been going on for a long time.    

The last part is the important part to me, this isn't some 1 or 2 year thing, we are almost to the point where he has had more below average to terrible seasons with us than the great ones we remember.