2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[Tenacious D]

32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

If I had to guess today, the off season departures will be Baddoo, Maton, Haase, Ibanez plus whatever trades they make.

I think Maton stays if he still has minors options.

[Tigermojo]

If they could add a couple good bats and have a bench of McKinstry, Vierling and Short, they might be able to compete in the Central.

[RandyMarsh]

Has there been an update on Mize? Just made me think of him when I saw an article about Walker Buehler saying he plans on returning in September, Buehler had TJ surgery like 6 weeks after Mize did last year so if he is ready to return by then you would think Mize may be as well. This is Buehler's second TJ surgery though so maybe that makes the recovery quicker, I'm not really sure. 

[1776]

RHP Casey Mize (Tommy John surgery, lumbar strain)
Expected return: Possibly late 2023
Mize completed a bullpen session on Aug. 5 in which he used his secondary pitches. He threw another bullpen session on Aug. 9. (Last updated: Aug. 10)

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, 1776 said:

RHP Casey Mize (Tommy John surgery, lumbar strain)
Expected return: Possibly late 2023
Mize completed a bullpen session on Aug. 5 in which he used his secondary pitches. He threw another bullpen session on Aug. 9. (Last updated: Aug. 10)

That's good to hear, ideally I'd like for him to make a few starts this year to workout some of the post TJ kinks. Between that, what he does in the offseason and then the starts he makes in Spring Training maybe he will shed some of the post TJ command issues by the 2024 regular season. Or at the very least maybe they won't drag on too long and he'll be back to normal relatively early in the season. 

[casimir]

15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

If I had to guess today, the off season departures will be Baddoo, Maton, Haase, Ibanez plus whatever trades they make.

I may be wrong, but I think I've heard that Baddoo has another minor league option after this season.  I can see an Opening Day roster spot battle between he and MeadowsP.  But Baddoo hasn't done enough to consider himself anything more than an incumbent in name only.

Ibanez and Haase are easy write offs.  I see Ibanez and Short as repetitive, with Short having better plate discipline and better defensive versatility.  Kreidler probably factors in this discussion to some degree.

14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I think Maton stays if he still has minors options.

I think there might be some substance to Maton suffering from bad luck on batted balls in the first half.  I think there's a batter chance of him returning than some people want.  And that goes up if he does indeed have a minor league option left.  But I cannot see him as an option for 3B, not regularly anyway.  He just doesn't seem to have the reaction time.  Up the middle infield, sure.  And maybe he is simply a bridge guy until Keith is ready.

Its still kind of tough to envision what the roster could look like next season.  I'm not sure Harris' hot stove is indicative of what we will see going forward.  Cabrera comes off of the books.  Rodriguez probably walks.  Gotta think Baez is sticking around.  Those are probably the big known items going into the offseason.  Obviously there are serious offensive needs to tend to.  So, there may be in house options to fill some roster slots, but those options probably aren't going to move this team in a significant way towards .500.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I think Maton stays if he still has minors options.

I think Baddoo is the only one of the four who will still have options next year.

If we can’t strengthen the roster over the winter, and we can’t throw them into trades for anything useful, we might give them one more chance and then try to waive/DFA them for org depth if they flop.

[RatkoVarda]

C - NEED TO ACQUIRE; Jake

1B - Tork

2B - NEED TO ACQUIRE; McKinstry or Maton

SS - Baez

3B - Keith; Ibanez or Short or Kreidler

LF/DH - Carpenter; Malloy or Baddoo

CF - Greene; NEED?

RF - Meadows; Vierling

If Harris can fill C, 2B, and maybe another OF, with a little growth and a little luck, no reason they cannot be .500ish, and in the ALC that's all you need. Hard to believe he again ignores improving ML lineup this winter.

[Dan Gilmore]

If Vierling can play 3B (too early to say), and if Keith can field 2B adequately (another IF that the answer is currently unclear about), I think some of those holes could be filled. In my brief ☹️ look at the Dodgers prospects, they have two catchers almost ready. If we had acquired Dalton Rushing it would have been great to ease him in with Rodgers. Maybe they can pursue Rushing in the off-season. Not sure what that would take. Agree that Baddoo is being passed by Meadows. 

[Dan Gilmore]

Now that I see the other thread has been started, maybe my post would go there?

[Cruzer1]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/08/latest-on-jung-hoo-lee.html

I believe someone brought this up in one of the threads, but this seems to be a Scott Harris type of player.

 

Latest On Jung Hoo Lee

By Darragh McDonald | August 10, 2023 at 10:15pm CDT

KBO star Jung Hoo Lee has been one of the more intriguing potential free agents of the upcoming offseason ever since reports back in January indicated that he would be posted by his KBO club, the Kiwoom Heroes. A wrench was thrown in that plan when he recently required ankle surgery, though Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports today that Lee is still expected to sign with a major league club this winter.

Lee, 24, already has an impressive résumé in his short career. He won Rookie of the Year in the KBO in 2017 by hitting .324/.395/.417 when he was just 18 years old for most of the season. He continued to take steps forward in the years to come, especially in 2022. He launched 23 home runs and finished with a batting line of .349/.421/.575 for a wRC+ of 175. He struck out in 5.1% of his plate appearances while walking in 10.5% of them. He stole five bases and won a fifth straight Gold Glove, with all of those attributes leading to a Most Valuable Player award.

This year won’t be the perfect platform season for him, as he’s been a notch below that MVP form. His walk rate went up to 12.7% but he hit just six home runs, leading to a .319/.407/.456 batting line. His 142 wRC+ indicates he’s still been well above league average but not quite as outrageously as he was last year. To top things off, he’s now missing the final months of the season due to his aforementioned ankle surgery.

Perhaps he or the Heroes would have given some second thought to his posting, maybe delaying it by a year, though it seems the plan has yet to be altered. Morosi relays that neither party has given any indication that the path forward has changed.

Lee will turns 25 years old later this month and will no longer be considered an “amateur” by MLB rules and won’t be subject to the bonus pool system. He will therefore be free to sign a contract of any length or dollar amount, with the signing club also responsible for paying a posting fee to the Heroes. That’s tied to the size of the contract itself, with the MLB team owing the KBO club 20 percent of the contract’s first $25MM, 17.5 percent of the next $25MM and 15 percent of any dollars thereafter. That fee is on top of any dollars guaranteed to the player himself, and subsequent earning (e.g. performance incentives, contract options) are also subject to the posting system once they become guaranteed to the player.

This winter’s free agent class is headlined by starting pitchers, with very few impact bats expected to be available. Assuming Lee’s ankle heals up in the months to come and he is posted as expected, he figures to still draw plenty of interest.

[Edman85]

Maton still will have options next year. He wasn't down for 20 days, so didn't use one this year. I don't think that will play a role in any decisions. I think he's close to a lock to sticking around. The only thing that may make Baddoo shaky is arb eligibility, but as a super 2 with a couple of uninspiring years who still has some use, I see him getting tendered and getting a high 6 figures deal.

I tend to agree that Haase and Ibanez are possible if not likely 40-man casualties, but I could see them both wanting to come back on a minor league deal. Also, btw, Ibanez will still have an option. He has one remaining and did not use one this year because his time in the minors was off the 40 man, and not wedged between major league stints. They seem to like Ibanez and some of the advanced metrics that take batted ball type into play may back that up.

It doesn't look like there will be any roster crunch issues, so there won't be many hard decisions.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Edman85

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

C - NEED TO ACQUIRE; Jake

1B - Tork

2B - NEED TO ACQUIRE; McKinstry or Maton

SS - Baez

3B - Keith; Ibanez or Short or Kreidler

LF/DH - Carpenter; Malloy or Baddoo

CF - Greene; NEED?

RF - Meadows; Vierling

If Harris can fill C, 2B, and maybe another OF, with a little growth and a little luck, no reason they cannot be .500ish, and in the ALC that's all you need. Hard to believe he again ignores improving ML lineup this winter.

From MLBTR:

Catchers

Jorge Alfaro (31)
Tucker Barnhart (33) – can opt out of remaining one year and $3.25MM
Victor Caratini (30)
Curt Casali (35) – $4MM mutual option with a $750K buyout
Travis d’Arnaud (35) – $8MM club option (no buyout)
Mitch Garver (33)
Yan Gomes (36) – $6MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Yasmani Grandal (35)*
Austin Hedges (31)
Sandy Leon (35)
Luke Maile (33)
Martin Maldonado (37)
Tom Murphy (33)
Roberto Perez (35)
Manny Piña (37) – $4MM club option (no buyout)
Kevin Plawecki (33)
Austin Romine (35)
Mike Zunino (33)

Second Basemen

Hanser Alberto (31)
Elvis Andrus (35)
Adam Frazier (32)
Josh Harrison (36)
Tony Kemp (32)
Tommy La Stella (35)
Whit Merrifield (35) – $18MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Jorge Polanco (30) – $10.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jonathan Schoop (32)
Donovan Solano (36)
Kolten Wong (33)

Which of these look best and/or most likely to you?

[RandyMarsh]

I'm fine with Rogers being our starting catcher, he isn't perfect but there aren't a whole lot of guys out there that we could conceivably get that would be an upgrade. Hell there really aren't a whole lot of guys better than him right now period. 

[RatkoVarda]

Merrifield on a 2 year deal would be a bridge to Jung/Lee/Gold.

Same for Caratini if Dingler is still in their long term plans, though 2 years probably not enough.

They can pay a premium for any player for a short term deal; the 2024 payroll is looking Oakland-esque.

 

 

 

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm fine with Rogers being our starting catcher, he isn't perfect but there aren't a whole lot of guys out there that we could conceivably get that would be an upgrade. Hell there really aren't a whole lot of guys better than him right now period. 

I also think he is earning his shot at a #1 mid coming out of camp (unless he collapses between now and April of course). Signing a catcher to flip doesn’t feel like it’s in the cards anymore. 

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Merrifield on a 2 year deal would be a bridge to Jung/Lee/Gold.

Same for Caratini if Dingler is still in their long term plans, though 2 years probably not enough.

They can pay a premium for any player for a short term deal; the 2024 payroll is looking Oakland-esque.

 

 

 

I think they would have to sign a guy who won’t mind losing, because that’s going to be the perception of the team to the guys on the FA market. That would mean guys without better options, or who need a career reset. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by chasfh

[RatkoVarda]

or, alternatively, throw cash at them

[1776]

32 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm fine with Rogers being our starting catcher, he isn't perfect but there aren't a whole lot of guys out there that we could conceivably get that would be an upgrade. Hell there really aren't a whole lot of guys better than him right now period. 

I’m still asking why Harris doesn’t, unless he already has, reach out to SF to just inquire about Joey Bart. Bailey is their #1 guy for the foreseeable future. Bart is out of options. 

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I’m still asking why Harris doesn’t, unless he already has, reach out to SF to just inquire about Joey Bart. Bailey is their #1 guy for the foreseeable future. Bart is out of options. 

Don't know what's up with Bart - but he might be trending to a backup profile. The discouraging thing for his value is that he hasn't been able to hit at AAA either since they sent him down. Injuries maybe?

[Tiger337]

45 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm fine with Rogers being our starting catcher, he isn't perfect but there aren't a whole lot of guys out there that we could conceivably get that would be an upgrade. Hell there really aren't a whole lot of guys better than him right now period. 

Rogers strikes out too much, but is pretty good otherwise.  He is not especially young at 28, but should be fine as a starting catcher for the next couple of years.  I am curious about what they would have gotten for him if he was traded because he has quite a bit of value.    

[SeattleMike]

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

C - NEED TO ACQUIRE; Jake

1B - Tork

2B - NEED TO ACQUIRE; McKinstry or Maton

SS - Baez

3B - Keith; Ibanez or Short or Kreidler

LF/DH - Carpenter; Malloy or Baddoo

CF - Greene; NEED?

RF - Meadows; Vierling

If Harris can fill C, 2B, and maybe another OF, with a little growth and a little luck, no reason they cannot be .500ish, and in the ALC that's all you need. Hard to believe he again ignores improving ML lineup this winter.

They have basically been a .500 team since starting 2-9 so playing .500 ball next year, with the right roster moves, seems within reach. 

[1776]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Don't know what's up with Bart - but he might be trending to a backup profile. The discouraging thing for his value is that he hasn't been able to hit at AAA either since they sent him down. Injuries maybe?

To your point on injuries, yes he’s had some injuries in the time he’s been in SF but I’d trust if there was anything major the Tigers would catch it via the due diligence process. I was thinking he might be at a backup position with the opportunity (for he and the club) to improve himself and value. Harris and Hinch have repeatedly touted the, ‘Come here and we can improve you as a player’ mantra. Bart impresses me as a prime candidate for this approach. SF has very little, if any, leverage with a Bart deal. 
I listen to a fair amount of Giants games and have heard Kapler comment on Bart’s status on a number of occasions during pregame interviews with Jon Miller. First hand, it is clear that Bart is not a shining star by the bay anymore. 

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

They have basically been a .500 team since starting 2-9 so playing .500 ball next year, with the right roster moves, seems within reach. 

The Tigers are one game under 500 in games Riley played, 10 under in the games he didn't and probably no accident their worst losing streak came when he was out. It doesn't take that many good players to make a difference. We have a couple of promising position players in the system that could help next season (for a change) and the BP is OK, but I think even with Mize returning, you have assume they lose ERod so they are going to need to sign at least one and maybe two Lorenzen level starters in the off season if they are going to get above 500. Or maybe Olsen becomes a beast.

Edited August 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

Did baseball reference change their site so that you can't summarize selected rows?  I used to be able to look at a player's page or a team's results page, click a row, then click another row, and it would summarize the data between those two rows.