2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, oblong said:

Did baseball reference change their site so that you can't summarize selected rows?  I used to be able to look at a player's page or a team's results page, click a row, then click another row, and it would summarize the data between those two rows.

 

Still working here. Is your browser janked? I use mostly Linux and I've noticed in the last year or so Chrome is getting more buggy  - having to reset it more often and use FF to do more things, but that just might be for Linux. 

[RatkoVarda]

27 minutes ago, oblong said:

Did baseball reference change their site so that you can't summarize selected rows?  I used to be able to look at a player's page or a team's results page, click a row, then click another row, and it would summarize the data between those two rows.

 

still works, but glitchy for me yesterday trying same thing

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, SeattleMike said:

They have basically been a .500 team since starting 2-9 so playing .500 ball next year, with the right roster moves, seems within reach. 

The Tigers have started out slow three years in a row.  I don't know if that's enough to be a significant trend, but I also don't know if we can say that they are different team now than the one that started 2-9.  Is there some reason for their slow starts or is it a fluke?  

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

still works, but glitchy for me yesterday trying same thing

I can do it too, but it often has glitches.  Sometimes, I have to try it a couple of times before it works.  

[SeattleMike]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The Tigers are one game under 500 in games Riley played, 10 under in the games he didn't and probably no accident their worst losing streak came when he was out. It doesn't take that many good players to make a difference. We have a couple of promising position players in the system that could help next season (for a change) and the BP is OK, but I think even with Mize returning, you have assume they lose ERod so they are going to need to sign at least one and maybe two Lorenzen level starters in the off season if they are going to get above 500. Or maybe Olsen becomes a beast.

I agree on the pitching. They need to extend Erod or replace him with an equivalent talent and add another starting pitcher. The 2024 free agent class of pitchers is much better than position players and the Tigers payroll will be near the bottom of the league. No reason not to be aggressive in roster upgrades this offseason. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by SeattleMike

[Tiger337]

I agree they need to add both hitters and pitchers.  It will be easier to get pitchers in the free agent market this off-season.  They may need to get more creative pursuing batters.  I do think they can contend next season and that should be their goal.  They can always sell at the deadline if things don't work out.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

The Tigers have started out slow three years in a row.  I don't know if that's enough to be a significant trend, but I also don't know if we can say that they are different team now than the one that started 2-9.  Is there some reason for their slow starts or is it a fluke?  

You would normally hammer the manager for prepping his team incorrectly when they start out badly three times in a row but we tend not be allowed to blame things on Hinch ().  But TBF, you started the season with a bad Turnbull and no Lorenzen. That was probably most of the difference.

But even given that, we still had  hitters coming out of ST in a funk. Last season it was everyone, this season it was mostly Cabrera and Torkelson. Two months ago that list would have included Haase and Baez, but their problems are now more than slow starts. I don't suppose you can blame a manager much for what a 23 yr vet is doing, but I've never been sure this coaching staff has had the right keys to Torkelson.

 

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You would normally hammer the manager for prepping his team incorrectly when they start out badly three times in a row but we tend not be allowed to blame things on Hinch ().  But TBF, you started the season with a bad Turnbull and no Lorenzen. That was probably most of the difference.

But even given that, we still had  hitters coming out of ST in a funk. Last season it was everyone, this season it was mostly Cabrera and Torkelson. Two months ago that list would have included Haase and Baez, but their problems are now more than slow starts. I don't suppose you can blame a manager much for what a 23 yr vet is doing, but I've never been sure this coaching staff has had the right keys to Torkelson.

 

I mostly brought it up because everyone was saying they Tigers turned the corner after a bad April in 2021.  As it turned out, they were really were capable of being that bad again - like all of 2022!  

As for this year, Lorenzen's injury was a problem, but expecting this staff to remain healthy all year is pretty optimistic.

It was also probably a subtle shot at Hinch. 😁   I don't have a problem with him, but he does get deified by some.  

[Edman85]

Common thread in 2021 and 2023 for the slow starts was having the wrong guys emerge from camp. 2021 got better once Ramos was cut free, JaCoby Jones was out of the lineup, and Willi Castro wasn't killing the team at shortstop. 2023 got better once some of the awful bullpen decisions made coming out of camp were reversed. Never forget Trey Wingenter and Garrett Hill made the roster over Tyler Holton and Will Vest.

[gehringer_2]

29 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

They may need to get more creative pursuing batters. 

I'm less worried about the hitting. Most of the hitters are still in the 'getting' better phase of their career, and one or two of Malloy/Keith/Meadows could be in house improvements by next year. I'd wan to pick up at least one bat, but it's not clear what position they'd be looking for  - catcher, 2b or 3b depending on what you expected from Keith? OF is already pretty crowded with guys we like. 

OTOH - my confidence levels for Manning, Turnbull and Mize are all moderate at best.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Edman85 said:

Common thread in 2021 and 2023 for the slow starts was having the wrong guys emerge from camp. 2021 got better once Ramos was cut free, JaCoby Jones was out of the lineup, and Willi Castro wasn't killing the team at shortstop. 2023 got better once some of the awful bullpen decisions made coming out of camp were reversed. Never forget Trey Wingenter and Garrett Hill made the roster over Tyler Holton and Will Vest.

True also.  I suppose you can accept to see questionable talent tryouts get more priority on a team they know isn't going anywhere. You would hope not to see any of that next season.

[Edman85]

Well, for the first time in a decade next year, the Tigers won't be penciling a sub replacement DH on a bloated contract in the lineup every day. Even before Miggy fell off the map, VMart preceded him.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Well, for the first time in a decade next year, the Tigers won't be penciling a sub replacement DH on a bloated contract in the lineup every day. Even before Miggy fell off the map, VMart preceded him.

At least he has not been a disaster this season - at least not since May. That's more than I thought we would get. Since May he's on a pace about .9H/game. if he plays in 25 more games out of the 47 remaining, that should get him past Beltre on the all time list. Then again, down the stretch there really isn't any reason not to play him more if he is hitting. What would they be saving him for/from? 

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

or, alternatively, throw cash at them

If a winner doesn’t throw cash at them as well, then sure, they might come. That’s how we got Lorenzen and Boyd.

[RatkoVarda]

Vest back; Shreve DFA

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Vest back; Shreve DFA

did not expect that. For Vest?

gotta be more to that story.

Edited August 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Edman85]

28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

did not expect that. For Vest?

gotta be more to that story.

He's not good and he's out of options. They found a superior left-handed option on waivers last week. Not sure what more you need. His ERA was pushing 5 and periph's didn't suggest much more.

[Edman85]

Bubba Thompson DFA'ed by the Rangers. I see no reason not to snap him up if he makes it to the Tigers on waivers.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

He's not good and he's out of options. They found a superior left-handed option on waivers last week. Not sure what more you need. His ERA was pushing 5 and periph's didn't suggest much more.

IDK, depends on how you cut it. No runs allowed in 19 of his last 26 appearances, 3.10 FIP since May 1. I wouldn't say he's pitched badly. Like most not top of line relievers, he has days when he's not good but for a 6,7th inning guy thought he was serviceable. Time will tell if his replacement does better.

[gehringer_2]

This team doesn't seem to adjust very well. They lost the opening game of their last 7 series.

[Tenacious D]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

This team doesn't seem to adjust very well. They lost the opening game of their last 7 series.

Not a very good team—In the bottom 5 in many offensive categories. It’s amazing they have done as well as they have.

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Not a very good team—In the bottom 5 in many offensive categories. It’s amazing they have done as well as they have.

Making the most of the slight talent they have and learning to win a little with it.

[chasfh]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:54 PM, gehringer_2 said:

did not expect that. For Vest?

gotta be more to that story.

There is a chance, however slight, that Will Vest has a future with this team, versus there was zero chance, even slight, that Chasen Shreve could have any future with this team. Plus, as you note otherwise, Vest is having a pretty good season this year.

[Motor City Sonics]

Thing that kind of blows me away is that the Tigers are 48-46 if you take out the AL East.       Plus, if they hadn't lost themselves when  Riley got hurt and went on that awful 9 game losing street.  If they had just gone 4-5 in that stretch, they'd be 56-59 and just 3 games out.  

Frustrating season.   With all the injuries and terrible offense, they technically are still in this thing.   But they can't lose a series the rest of the way........if they chip away and win 2 out of every 3..........who knows.  79 wins could grab this division this year, and sure, they probably wouldn't go far, but hey, who knows, just being there for 1 extra game would be fun.         

Looking ahead, to me. they seem set in the OF.   Vierling-Greene-Carpenter with Baddoo and Parker Meadows is probably just fine. 

Starting catcher, despite the low BA, is one of their best players.     

Better keep Chris Fetters around because he gets the most out of that staff (with a lot of help from Jake Rogers)

Torkelson has given us hope.  I think he's on track to be a 30 HR guy (if he could only hit 'em where they ain't, because he hits it as hard as anyone in baseaball). 

It's the rest of the infield.     That's the weakest part right there.  No guarantee that Colt Keith steps in as a rookie and shines next year.    Man, I just hope Javy opts out and they can upgrade that infield.     Keeping McKinstry as the SuperSub would be fine, but he's not an every day guy.  

 Even though I still think every thing they do should be aimed at 2025 and beyond,  in this this division, you can still be building and win it.  

 

 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

There is a chance, however slight, that Will Vest has a future with this team, versus there was zero chance, even slight, that Chasen Shreve could have any future with this team. Plus, as you note otherwise, Vest is having a pretty good season this year.

It wasn't as much Vest as I thought Wingenter would be the 1st man off the boat just because they only have 2 left handers. But I was forgetting they had picked up Vasquez.