gehringer_2 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: I'm always biased towards guys that can can get whiffs so in my mind I'm more of a believer in Olson going forward. Yeah he doesnt have the prospect pedigree of Manning but his stuff and results passes the eye test to me. He's made a lot of progress. He can still work on getting out of long ABs a little better. One other place he could get even better is if he can move the breaking ball inside/outside a little more. He threw a lot of his sliders properly low but maybe too much down the middle. It was a slider low but in the middle of zone that Muncie sat on that left the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 As early as it is and after only a couple of starts, I’m liking Sawyer Gipson-Long. He’s 25 years old and Olsen is only 24 years of age. And…they’re both natives of the Peach state. ERod or not, there should be a decent competition for the rotation in spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 27 minutes ago, chasfh said: Reese Olson is having a nice little season out of nowhere at this level and he has earned the right to be penciled in as an early favorite for the rotation next year, but I’m gonna need to see him do it for a couple more years before I believe he will be in the middle of the rotation of the next playoff team. Sure, he's not a finished product yet. On the other hand, neither is Manning. I think its fair to suggest they are equal pitchers right now, and perhaps Olson might actually be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Reese Olson is having a nice little season out of nowhere at this level and he has earned the right to be penciled in as an early favorite for the rotation next year, but I’m gonna need to see him do it for a couple more years before I believe he will be in the middle of the rotation of the next playoff team. That's why it's pencil and not pen. He has earned a chance to show what he can do for another year (or as long as he keeps pitching well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: Sure, he's not a finished product yet. On the other hand, neither is Manning. I think its fair to suggest they are equal pitchers right now, and perhaps Olson might actually be better. Maybe. That may end up being a distinction without much relevance since I am not totally sold on Manning yet, either. The only pitcher we have I am reasonably confident, or at least optimistic, will be an important part of our playoff team pitching staff is Tarik Skubal. Even Casey Mize is on notice to start killing right out of the box next year. This may be as good a time as any to remind everyone that, tantalizing though his stuff may be, Mize's future is starting to evaporate, as he turns 27 next May while cobbling together a very thin resume. He's not anything like a lost cause yet, but man, a whole lot of sand has fallen in his hourglass already. Sht, man, he's already arb-eligible next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Even Casey Mize is on notice to start killing right out of the box next year. “Full Bore” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Maybe. That may end up being a distinction without much relevance since I am not totally sold on Manning yet, either. The only pitcher we have I am reasonably confident, or at least optimistic, will be an important part of our playoff team pitching staff is Tarik Skubal. Even Casey Mize is on notice to start killing right out of the box next year. This may be as good a time as any to remind everyone that, tantalizing though his stuff may be, Mize's future is starting to evaporate, as he turns 27 next May while cobbling together a very thin resume. He's not anything like a lost cause yet, but man, a whole lot of sand has fallen in his hourglass already. Sht, man, he's already arb-eligible next year! Skubal seems to be the ace. The concern with him is that he seems like an injury risk. Having him be Freddy Peralta (someone who is very good but always seems to be on the verge of an injury) is not the worst thing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Skubal seems to be the ace. The concern with him is that he seems like an injury risk. Having him be Freddy Peralta (someone who is very good but always seems to be on the verge of an injury) is not the worst thing though. Right, Skubal is nothing like a workhorse ace, which are generationally rare unicorns. But he's what Harris/Greenberg have inherited so he's what we have to try to count on for now, at least until whatever players this front office brings aboard through draft or trade or free agency move into a position to become the dominant, franchise-leading forces that ring-winning teams need. I think we are probably years and years away from that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Manning has 50 strikeouts in 78 innings??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleMike Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, chasfh said: Right, Skubal is nothing like a workhorse ace, which are generationally rare unicorns. But he's what Harris/Greenberg have inherited so he's what we have to try to count on for now, at least until whatever players this front office brings aboard through draft or trade or free agency move into a position to become the dominant, franchise-leading forces that ring-winning teams need. I think we are probably years and years away from that happening. I think Jobe has a strong chance to be that guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, chasfh said: Right, Skubal is nothing like a workhorse ace, which are generationally rare unicorns. But he's what Harris/Greenberg have inherited so he's what we have to try to count on for now, at least until whatever players this front office brings aboard through draft or trade or free agency move into a position to become the dominant, franchise-leading forces that ring-winning teams need. I think we are probably years and years away from that happening. The Tigers had two of those unicorns at the same time. Too bad they let them go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, SeattleMike said: I think Jobe has a strong chance to be that guy. He sure has shown something along those lines lately, hasn't he? This new development group would earn a huge feather in their cap if that guy makes it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Manning has 50 strikeouts in 78 innings??? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 40 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Manning has 50 strikeouts in 78 innings??? Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Exactly. Manning is basically a FB pitcher and it's not uncommon for FB guys to develop their K potential a little deeper into their experience. Verlander and Scherzer were both 3 yrs into regular starting before their K rates hit 9/9IP consistently. If you hit the league as a breaking ball guy, you may get out of the gate with a more impressive early K rate, but your skill set is probably going to be more ephemeral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 If SGL has two more starts anywhere near like the first two and is still popping in the stuff metrics next Spring, I don't know how you don't have him in the rotation next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, Edman85 said: If SGL has two more starts anywhere near like the first two and is still popping in the stuff metrics next Spring, I don't know how you don't have him in the rotation next year. He's the 5th starter if the season started tomorrow. I am hoping they acquire someone with a track record in the off-season. They need at least 7 capable starters anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Well, providing health and no trades, the rotation includes Skubal around the top and Mize & Manning middle/bottom. I said before I consider this 2 pitchers, although maybe they’re all ready to start off the season. I think Olson is earning a spot with the way he’s pitching. My opinion not too long ago was they needed a top half arm and another reasonable filler, with Olson probably starting in Toledo but probably the first call up. But, he may be getting himself into position to be that latter guy. Gipson-Long has had a couple of nice starts. I’m just not sure I’d be writing him into the Detroit rotation yet. So now how does this manifest itself in the off-season? Free agent 4/5 types might not see an opportunity with Detroit because of how Olson has pitched. So now Detroit might be fishing in the AAAA pond for SP depth more than they thought. But, hey, developing SPs is a nice problem to have. Maybe they can find a Lorenzen/Olson type in those ranks. And who knows, maybe Jobe flourishes enough to where he is ready to make a debut later next season. There are probably worse 8th/9th SP options. I think the rotation days of Faedo/Wentz/Alexander need to be done. Keep them in the bullpen, see if they can handle multiple innings as needed (if retained). Brieske might fall into the bullpen also, and that’s fine. Although if he has options, maybe he starts out in Toledo as SP depth. And obviously Holton, Foley, and Lange are in the bullpen toward the end of the game, but I’d move any of them if a trade presented itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Betcha Lorenzen comes back, or at least if he doesn’t, it won’t be his choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 I'd like one high level starter: Eduardo coming back or a similar level replacement. And one high level reliever. Some veteran who still has stuff and can maybe settle these guys down. Or show them a new pitch or two or a new grip. Whatever works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, casimir said: Well, providing health and no trades, the rotation.. the other option that maybe has earned a look to join the rotation is Tyler Holton. He has been pretty much lights out every time he goes to the mound -- 0.859 WHIP across 80 IP. You have Brieske, Alexander and Faedo as long relief/Toledo starting reserve, so I think we'd be wasting Holton in that role again. How many long relievers can generate 2.7 WAR? Edited September 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: the other option that maybe has earned a look to join the rotation is Tyler Holton. He has been pretty much lights out every time he goes to the mound -- 0.859 WHIP across 80 IP. You have Brieske, Alexander and Faedo as long relief/Toledo starting reserve, so I think we'd be wasting Holton in that role again. How many long relievers can generate 2.7 WAR? I’ve heard one podcaster bring up Holton for the rotation. I don’t know about that. Honestly, I wonder if the best move is to trade him now at peak value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I'd like one high level starter: Eduardo coming back or a similar level replacement. And one high level reliever. Some veteran who still has stuff and can maybe settle these guys down. Or show them a new pitch or two or a new grip. Whatever works... Joe Jimenez is set to be a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, casimir said: I’ve heard one podcaster bring up Holton for the rotation. I don’t know about that. Honestly, I wonder if the best move is to trade him now at peak value? Is there such a thing as getting peak value for a guy you've been using in middle relief? Methinks you'd end up selling fairly low. I guess the knock is that he's 27 yrs old. But traditional wisdom is that it's never too late for a lefty to turn into something. Edited September 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Seven of the Tampa Bay Rays regular bullpen arms are 30 years of age or greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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