2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Edman85 said:

On the ballot after the 2028 season, inducted in 2029. That assumes first ballot, which... I'm not 100% sold on. There's a lot more voters who hold things like domestic violence and drunk driving against players these days, and that number is only going to go up in the next five years.

He seems to be able to deflect that like Ortiz and steroid use.  Most Tigers fans consider him a likeable guy and kind of forget about the off-season incidents.  I don't get the feeling he is viewed as a bad guy nationally either.  

It seems like he and his wife were equally responsible for the dometic abuse.  It's not like he went home and beat the crap out of her.  It sounded like she did much of the damage.  It definitely seemed like he had serious drinking problem though.  

 

[Tenacious D]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

He seems to be able to deflect that like Ortiz and steroid use.  Most Tigers fans consider him a likeable guy and kind of forget about the off-season incidents.  I don't get the feeling he is viewed as a bad guy nationally either.  

It seems like he and his wife were equally responsible for the dometic abuse.  It's not like he went home and beat the crap out of her.  It sounded like she did much of the damage.  It definitely seemed like he had serious drinking problem though.  

 

This.  All Will be forgotten, just like it was with Ortiz.  I’ll wager with anyone that Miggy is first ballot.

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

They are also roughly 20 games under .500 if you neglect their best 11 game stretch.

Right, I don't really get the exclusion of games.  I think their overall record is indicative of what they are - an improved team which still has holes.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

Just now, Tenacious D said:

This.  All Will be forgotten, just like it was with Ortiz.  I’ll wager with anyone that Miggy is first ballot.

I agree he'll be first ballot.  I don't like the way his career ended, but he has great career numbers and he is being widely glorified.   

[Toddwert]

8 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

They are also roughly 20 games under .500 if you neglect their best 11 game stretch.

and about the same if you get rid of the games against the worst division in baseball

[Tenacious D]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Right, I don't really get the exclusion of games.  I think their overally record is idicative of what they are - an improved team with still has holes.  

Yes—they got slammed by the AL East.  That’s the bar now—what will it take to be competitive with them?

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Right, I don't really get the exclusion of games.  I think their overall record is indicative of what they are - an improved team which still has holes.  

Yes.  They're 76-83.  They'll be at least 10 games better than last season.  They've made improvements, and they still need to make more.

[casimir]

By the way, the Tigers are undefeated on Sundays in September.

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree he'll be first ballot.  I don't like the way his career ended, but he has great career numbers and he is being widely glorified.   

When it comes time for the vote, writers will look at the bottom line and remember the Triple Crown and that he got a ring. They will completely forget his final seven years. There's no way he doesn't go in on the first ballot. He's not DiMaggio, after all.

[Shinzaki]

He's a 1st Ballot HOF....no way he shouldn't be.  Even with the last 7 years being pedestrian, he's had a historically significant career.

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

He's a 1st Ballot HOF....no way he shouldn't be.  Even with the last 7 years being pedestrian, he's had a historically significant career.

I think the last 7 years were worse than pedestrian, but he did enough prior to that.  What the last 7 years did was change him from an elite Hall of Famer like Hank Aaron to a surefire but not elite Hall of Famer like Jim Thome or Frank Thomas.    

[Shinzaki]

Disagree...500HRs...3000 hits...600 doubles  .300 career batting average.  He and Aaron are one of what 4 guys total to do that?

He was the closest thing to Hank Greenberg I think I will ever see in Detroit

[oblong]

If he wasn't signed to that contract by the Tigers 2 years before FA would he have reached 3000 hits or 500 HR?  Would a team have extended him this far into his career given how he played the last 3-4 years?

The other members of that group have a lot more HR and quite few more hits. In fact, if you extend it to 700 HR, 3000 hits, 600 doubles, and .300 average suddenly Miggy is left out but the others are still in the club.  He's part of the club but barely and the others are far ahead of him.

Those are convenient groupings but I don't think any less of Barry Bonds who ONLY got 2935 hits and therefore can't be included in that group.  He also had twice as many walks as Cabrera.   

 

[casimir]

Bringing up some names of yesteryear makes one think again about what kind of numerals players would have put up had they not been involved in military service.  Greenberg missed, what, 4 seasons after he turned 30?  And simply picked up from where he was as if he hadn't missed a beat?

[oblong]

The Club announced that Cabrera will be named as special assistant to POBO Scott Harris.

I wonder if he's going to keep his mansion on Lake St. Clair.

 

[Toddwert]

8 minutes ago, oblong said:

The Club announced that Cabrera will be named as special assistant to POBO Scott Harris.

I wonder if he's going to keep his mansion on Lake St. Clair.

 

so he gets to hangout in the clubhouse whenever..... they should've told him last season to retire and we'll pay 40 million to be a special asst. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Toddwert

[RandyMarsh]

I have little idea how the international market works nor what exactly a Special Assistant does but I wonder if Miggy could be any help getting guys down in Venezuela? 

[Shinzaki]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

If he wasn't signed to that contract by the Tigers 2 years before FA would he have reached 3000 hits or 500 HR?  Would a team have extended him this far into his career given how he played the last 3-4 years?

The other members of that group have a lot more HR and quite few more hits. In fact, if you extend it to 700 HR, 3000 hits, 600 doubles, and .300 average suddenly Miggy is left out but the others are still in the club.  He's part of the club but barely and the others are far ahead of him.

Those are convenient groupings but I don't think any less of Barry Bonds who ONLY got 2935 hits and therefore can't be included in that group.  He also had twice as many walks as Cabrera.   

 

And I view Barry Bonds as a historically significant player.  You can speculate on what might have happened all day...I can only  point to what did happen.

[oblong]

but I don't think minimally reaching a nice round number elevates him in any meaningful way historically against other players.  That's my point. 

 

[Tiger337]

4 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

Disagree...500HRs...3000 hits...600 doubles  .300 career batting average.  He and Aaron are one of what 4 guys total to do that?

He was the closest thing to Hank Greenberg I think I will ever see in Detroit

What did happen was that he was a replacement level player for seven years padding his counting stats.  The 500/3000/600./300 numbers are just arbitary cutoffs designed to eliminate guys like Ruth and Williams while keeping Cabrera in the group. 

Cabrera was a great hitter, easily the best Tigers hitter of my lifetime.  However, he is nowhere close to an all-time great like Aaron or Frank Robinson.  At one point, he looked like he was going to end up in that class, but he didn't have the lasting power.  There is noting shameful about being in the class of Frank Thomas and Jim Thome though.  

[romad1]

38 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What did happen was that he was a replacement level player for seven years padding his counting stats.  The 500/3000/600./300 numbers are just arbitary cutoffs designed to eliminate guys like Ruth and Williams while keeping Cabrera in the group. 

Cabrera was a great hitter, easily the best Tigers hitter of my lifetime.  However, he is nowhere close to an all-time great like Aaron or Frank Robinson.  At one point, he looked like he was going to end up in that class, but he didn't have the lasting power.  There is noting shameful about being in the class of Frank Thomas and Jim Thome though.  

"Grandma was a nice lady.  Was she the nicest lady?  No.  Should we celebrate her life here at her funeral, sure....I guess.  I mean people do that.  But, lets not go nuts." 

 

JK

[Jim Cowan]

I remember being dissatisfied with Al Kaline's struggle for 3,000 hits, it took him 3 years to get the last 300.  I thought that it was undignified and totally self-centered.

[Tenacious D]

6 hours ago, Toddwert said:

so he gets to hangout in the clubhouse whenever..... they should've told him last season to retire and we'll pay 40 million to be a special asst. 

Why?  He was one of our better hitters this season.  For all of the consternation that everyone seemed to have at the beginning of the season, my AAT was pretty good.  Not HOF good, but he had some key hits playing part time. I’m glad he was on the team.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Tenacious D

[Edman85]

Man, the only thing worse than arbitrary endpoints is combining it with arbitrary statistic choices.

[Tenacious D]

1 minute ago, Edman85 said:

Man, the only thing worse than arbitrary endpoints is combining it with arbitrary statistic choices.

I can think of something worse.