2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[Jim Cowan]

Yes, he is a good-field, no-hit shortstop,  lots of teams have those.  Forget about the money, it's gone.

[Tenacious D]

4 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yes, he is a good-field, no-hit shortstop,  lots of teams have those.  Forget about the money, it's gone.

That’s it.  Hard to reconcile what he was with what he’s become.

[RandyMarsh]

17 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

That’s it.  Hard to reconcile what he was with what he’s become.

This is the harsh truth. Javy may show some flashes here and there but I think everybody just has to except that this isn't the same guy that was an MVP candidate 5-7 years early on his career.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

This is the harsh truth. Javy may show some flashes here and there but I think everybody just has to except that this isn't the same guy that was an MVP candidate 5-7 years early on his career.

You do have to wonder if he wouldn't benefit from a different coaching approach since what the Tigers are doing isn't working. The thing that bothers me about just accepting that Javy's bat is just gone forever is that the continuing quality of his defense argues the reflex ability is still in there. He's not a guy who has just lost a step overall at 30.

Edited September 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

40 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yes, he is a good-field, no-hit shortstop,  lots of teams have those.  Forget about the money, it's gone.

He is good field for now.  That can go fast when a shortstop reaches 30.  

The surprising thing about him is his lack of power.  It was easy to predict that a totally undisciplined hitter was going to lose something as he aged and get on base even less often.  I figured he'd at least continue to hit for power though.  I hope they can get another couple of years of good range because that's all he's got now.   

[RandyMarsh]

Yes the lack of power is the biggest concern for me, if he was hitting for his normal power right now he wouldn't look too bad but it's all but disappeared with us. I don't know if it's cause of his approach and him trying to be somebody he isn't or if it could just be physical decline. IIRC when he was coming up his power/bat speed was heavily credited to his hand and wrist speed vs. something like pure power so is that something that you can potentially lose earlier than other things? 

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You do have to wonder if he wouldn't benefit from a different coaching approach since what the Tigers are doing isn't working. The thing that bothers me about just accepting that Javy's bat is just gone forever is that the continuing quality of his defense argues the reflex ability is still in there. He's not a guy who has just lost a step overall at 30.

That is true and defense tends to peak before hitting.  Another thing is that he has the lowest strikeout rate of his career.  

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

The surprising thing about him is his lack of power. 

RIght, because it's not lack of bat speed, it's purely lack of barrels. Everyone knows (including the Tigers) that Javy's problem is less swinging out of the zone than just getting quicker to the ball. The fan focus on plate discipline is misguided in Javy's case. He needs to find a more compact approach so he can wait longer to commit, and obviously that isn't happening. Is that coaching, is that Javy? Maybe both? Is there some coach out there somewhere who could straighten him out? Maybe.

OTOH, no coach has ever found a way to get Daniel Norris to throw a pitch without recoiling off the mound, and he's had a lot of coaches try. So who knows?

[Sports_Freak]

It sounds like Spenser Turnbull really doesn't want to play in MLB with the Tigers. He's stinking up Toledo and says his toenail is hurt. No good, the Tigers aren't putting him on the IL. He's days short of having a full year of service time and the IL would put him over. Making him a FA if the Tigers want to send him down (if he's ever even gets called up) and also giving him free agency a year sooner. I say trade him to Pittsburgh and watch him suck there. Too bad, I thought the Tigers had a decent SP in him.

 

"The timing of the optional assignment is critical, as well. Turnbull is six days away from reaching five years of Major League service time — the point at which a player gains the right to refuse an optional assignment to the minor leagues. The Tigers could have conceivably given Turnbull one big league start to see how he fared before making a decision on whether to option him, but even making two starts in the Majors would’ve resulted in him gaining the ability to decline when the team tried to option him. That service time is also worth keeping an eye on for club control purposes; if Turnbull gains even six more days of MLB service this year, he’ll be eligible for free agency following the 2024 season. If he remains in Triple-A, he’d be controllable through the 2025 campaign."

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/08/tigers-reinstate-spencer-turnbull-from-60-day-il-option-him-to-triple-a.html

 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

No good, the Tigers aren't putting him on the IL.

Question: If a guy is on optional assignment and he gets hurt, his IL time still counts on his ML clock?

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Question: If a guy is on optional assignment and he gets hurt, his IL time still counts on his ML clock?

From what that article says, yes, if the Tigers put him on the IL, it would count towards the 6 days he needs.

[Tenacious D]

Turnbull seems like a bit of a turd.  Maybe the injury stuff is legit, but also seems a bit suspect.  I’m all for keeping him next season, if even out of spite.  He’s gonna want to get a decent contract in free agency, so he’ll need to get it together at some point.

[Edman85]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Question: If a guy is on optional assignment and he gets hurt, his IL time still counts on his ML clock?

No. Unless he was injured when he sent down. If this cropped up after, he is SOL.

And disclaimer, if it is McCosky reporting on roster rules, ignore. He gets that stuff wrong more than he gets right.

[gehringer_2]

44 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

if it is McCosky reporting on roster rules, ignore. He gets that stuff wrong more than he gets right.

Nope. Seems like a nice guy but neither rules nor meds are exactly Mr McCs forte.

Edited September 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

18 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Nope. Seems like a nice guy but neither rules nor meds are exactly Mr McCs forte.

He doesn't seem like an especially nice guy.  He has had some run-ins with fans on social media.  

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

 

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

 

 

Bennett Sousa is why you want your son to be a lefty.  

[Dan Gilmore]

Yeah, but then you mess up and name him Bennet. At least go by Ben, or Bennie. 🤨

[tiger2022]

Just release Turnbull.  What is the point of keeping him?

[casimir]

33 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Just release Turnbull.  What is the point of keeping him?

Trade bait.  He could be an add on to acquire another bat to the lineup or a different pitcher.  The free agent market looks poor, so rather than shop there, why not try the trade market?  Why not engage with teams that might be looking to shed some salary, even if those salaries are attached to good ball players?

Edited September 4, 2023 by casimir

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, casimir said:

Trade bait.  He could be an add on to acquire another bat to the lineup or a different pitcher.  The free agent market looks poor, so rather than shop there, why not try the trade market?  Why not engage with teams that might be looking to shed some salary, even if those salaries are attached to good ball players?

And Boras might even do your work for you finding a team that wants him.

[tiger2022]

If you think Spencer Turnbull would return something in a trade, I guess....

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

If you think Spencer Turnbull would return something in a trade, I guess....

Agreed. I know he has a no-hitter on his resume and all, but who wants to trade for a gimpy under-performing malcontent?

[Toddwert]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Agreed. I know he has a no-hitter on his resume and all, but who wants to trade for a gimpy under-performing malcontent?

I guess at what point do you rip the band aide off?

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

I guess at what point do you rip the band aide off?

And just kick him to the curb? How about now? 😁

I'm sure Harris will try to find a trade partner for him this winter although I'm with what tiger2022 is suggesting—he might not return much, or maybe even anything, so I'm mentally preparing for him to be a dead loss.