2003 vs 2023

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

40 games. Sparky Anderson. 

No idea if Anderson intended it this way, but I've always taken "40 games" as more of: "Wait until 1/4 of the season if over before any 'Hot Takes'."  Which of course I've completely ignored by starting this whole thread.

[Dan Gilmore]

Agree that the 40 games was meant allowing sufficient time to have an idea about the team, it’s strengths and weaknesses, not so much about record. 

[chasfh]

I actually use the 40-game rule in my OOTP league: I set a starting lineup/rotation/bullpen for the season and let it go forty games without changing it (too much), just to give all the slow starters time to prove to me that I shouldn’t DFA them.

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Agree that the 40 games was meant allowing sufficient time to have an idea about the team, it’s strengths and weaknesses, not so much about record. 

Yeah, it's about having a sample size to work with. Baseball has a long season; 10 games is basically the equivalent of one game in the NFL... teams in the NFL generally aren't written off one game into the season, or at least teams that aren't complete dumpster fires (which, tbf, the Tigers probably fit in this category for the MLB at the moment). And even good teams have stretches of terrible baseball, even where they can go below .500 during 10 game stretches.

So yeah, others MMV, but I'm gonna keep my powder dry and watch some more baseball before concluding they are gonna lose 120 games.

Edited April 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tenacious D]

Even the broadcast crew is worse.

[romad1]

the scene in A Bridge Too Far  where Sean Connery is discussing the situation on the ground with his battalion commanders and the lunatics are laughing at them from the woods comes to mind.    "Do you think they know something we don't?"

 

[Jim Cowan]

12 minutes ago, romad1 said:

the scene in A Bridge Too Far  where Sean Connery is discussing the situation on the ground with his battalion commanders and the lunatics are laughing at them from the woods comes to mind.    "Do you think they know something we don't?"

 

Hey speaking of A Bridge Too Far, in what bizarro army is Ryan O'Neal a general???  While Robert Redford is a major?

[romad1]

23 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Hey speaking of A Bridge Too Far, in what bizarro army is Ryan O'Neal a general???  While Robert Redford is a major?

Gavin was a lady killer who slept with Marlene Deitrich.  Ryan O’ was semi big deal at the time.  I think Redford wanted the POV character for the river crossing which gave him a lot of action scenes.  

[mtutiger]

As much as Ryan O'Neal takes grief, his Barry Lyndon was pretty phenomenal 

[Motown Bombers]

8 hours ago, RedRamage said:

I sincerely hope that this is just yet another slow start for the Tigers.  I sincerely hope that in a few weeks y'all will be making fun of me for even thinking that a thread like this tracking the two years was necessary.  I really, really hope that...

Through 9 games:

2003: 0-9, R = 9, RA = 14, pW/L = 1-8
2023: 2-7, R = 27, RA = 62, pW/L = 0-9

For Pythagorean Theorem, I'm using this formula from Baseball-Reference: W%=[(Runs Scored)^1.81]/[(Runs Scored)^1.81 + (Runs Allowed)^1.81] 

The 2011 Tigers started 3-7 and finished the season with 95 wins and an ALCS appearance. 

[Jim Cowan]

22 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Gavin was a lady killer who slept with Marlene Deitrich.  Ryan O’ was semi big deal at the time.  I think Redford wanted the POV character for the river crossing which gave him a lot of action scenes.  

Oh no question Redford was the guy to do the combat hero scenes, he would have been wasted as a general.  

 

[Motor City Sonics]

I think the 2019 team was worse than the 2003 team and now they are giving us every reason to believe we might be in the same spot again.   3 times in one generation.  Are you kidding me?    Still haven't produced an All Star position player form our own system since, what, Travis Fryman?    This goes across multiple regimes here.   

Reminds me of a scene in Taxi where someone wonders why they always get mushy apples from the vending machine and Alex says  we have to buy up all the mushy ones until we start getting the fresh ones that were just loaded.   But Tony says if we buy up all the mushy ones right away, the vending guy is gonna think we like the mushy ones and he'll just load mushy ones all the time.      All we have is mushy apples.     Don't even bring up the bananas.

 

  

[chasfh]

I didn’t realize until I looked him up just now just what a sneaky good career Travis Fryman had. He was a 34-win player across 13 seasons, and he could pick it at third. Five-time All-Star who cleared some $45 million in salaries. Not bad for a guy with a 104 career OPS+.

[romad1]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

As much as Ryan O'Neal takes grief, his Barry Lyndon was pretty phenomenal 

i think what happened is Kubrick slowed Ryan O' Neal's career.

Kubrick was a sort of career killer for a lot of actors.  He took them out of the normal rotation for so long to do his movies that they didn't get seen in normal stuff for such a long time that they didn't produce the same impact on the movie industry as those who stayed out of his clutches.   Mathew Modine was a perfectly serviceable brat pack type actor until he disappeared for all those years to make Full Metal Jacket.  (BTW, see him in Birdy great Peter Gabriel soundtrack). 

I think Tom and Nichol as a Hollywood couple did not survive whatever it was that Eyes Wide Shut was.  Tom Cruise is just so talented and hard working so he could overcome that sort of thing.  

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, romad1 said:

i think what happened is Kubrick slowed Ryan O' Neal's career.

Kubrick was a sort of career killer for a lot of actors.  He took them out of the normal rotation for so long to do his movies that they didn't get seen in normal stuff for such a long time that they didn't produce the same impact on the movie industry as those who stayed out of his clutches.   Mathew Modine was a perfectly serviceable brat pack type actor until he disappeared for all those years to make Full Metal Jacket.  (BTW, see him in Birdy great Peter Gabriel soundtrack). 

I think Tom and Nichol as a Hollywood couple did not survive whatever it was that Eyes Wide Shut was.  Tom Cruise is just so talented and hard working so he could overcome that sort of thing.  

Interesting thoughts... you could probably add Malcolm McDowell and maybe Keir Dullea to that list as well. Weird, disjointed movie careers post-Kubrick.

Edited April 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[romad1]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Interesting thoughts... you could probably add Malcolm McDowell and maybe Keir Dullea to that list as well. Weird, disjointed movie careers post-Kubrick.

Caligula was just a brilliant career choice for any actor.  Hellen Mirren and Peter O' Tool maybe not as damaged as McDowell.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I didn’t realize until I looked him up just now just what a sneaky good career Travis Fryman had. He was a 34-win player across 13 seasons, and he could pick it at third. Five-time All-Star who cleared some $45 million in salaries. Not bad for a guy with a 104 career OPS+.

He has more career WAR than any other Tigers 3B:

Fryman 28

Kell 23

Inge 19

Boone 16

[casimir]

4 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

I wonder if anyone has ever put this Sparky axiom under the microscope? What is the correlation between a team's winning percentage after 40 games and the rest of the season? My guess is there might be a slight correlation but it's likely way overstated, as many things Anderson said were. 

I can hear my grandfather rolling in his grave complaining about “that bullshit artist”.

[Jim Cowan]

36 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Caligula was just a brilliant career choice for any actor.  Hellen Mirren and Peter O' Tool maybe not as damaged as McDowell.

Ha ha I remember reading a review at the time, Playboy probably, wondering what Helen Mirren was doing "slumming" in Caligula.

[Biff Mayhem]

14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Even the broadcast crew is worse.

Tigers Broadcasters | Detroit Tigers (mlb.com)

 

MLB still has Morris on board.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Biff Mayhem said:

Tigers Broadcasters | Detroit Tigers (mlb.com)

 

MLB still has Morris on board.

No wonder the Tigers are off to crummy start this season.  There's still a holdover stench from last season.

[mtutiger]

Maybin and Jones are an upgrade from Morris IMO, at least from what I've heard.

But they are more in role player capacities, at the end of the day Shep/Monroe are the ones that will drive opinion on the broadcast, I get it.

Edited April 11, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

14 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Still haven't produced an All Star position player form our own system since, what, Travis Fryman? 

Nick Castellanos

[Tigeraholic1]

Maybin is a HUGE upgrade over Morris. 

[RedRamage]

17 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

The 2011 Tigers started 3-7 and finished the season with 95 wins and an ALCS appearance. 

So you're saying there's a chance?

You are of course correct and I know that 9 games is too quick to rule out a team. However, it is work noting that the Runs for vs. Runs again in 2011 was 40/50 in that 10 game stretch while in 9 games we have 27/62. That's a projecting winning percentage of .400 vs. .181. 

But again... your point is correct.  It's too early to write off the team right now.