1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They have to be convinced that their consequences will be better with Democratic leaders. So their consequences are better today than in 2015... yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, romad1 said: well now OUCH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: So their consequences are better today than in 2015... yes? THEY have to be convinced. They did come out to vote in 2020. That was easy though. Trump was so obviously terrible that you'd have to be blind and deaf not to see it. They didn't vote because they thought Biden would be a good leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Democrats need to be inspired where Republicans see voting as their civic duty. Republicans have been working toward this for decades, Democrats give up after two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: THEY have to be convinced. They did come out to vote in 2020. That was easy though. Trump was so obviously terrible that you'd have to be blind and deaf not to see it. They didn't vote because they thought Biden would be a good leader. The second part, the non-bolded part (I actually remembered to BOLD something this time...), I 100% agree with. The first part... I'm just saying I think there needs to be less "convincing" and a whole lot more understanding of the ramifications of any decision, any decision, made... I think if someone actually understands the "consequences", there would be more "OK I gotta hold my nose on this but... gotta do it". Out of civic duty. Out of an understanding of the consequences of having the WRONG person in a position of power. Out of allowing the lesser of two evils into office because the lesser evil is, well, less evil. Out of knowing that you might not get exactly what you want but... getting 50% or 10% of what you want is better than getting 100% of what you DON'T want. Etc... I think I repeated myself about 5 times in that last bit, each in a different manner... But, whichever works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Democrats need to be inspired where Republicans see voting as their civic duty. Republicans have been working toward this for decades, Democrats give up after two years. Which... Has got to change if this country actually wants to survive. As a Democracy. As a pluralistic society. As a country that is willing to "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 I think the big corporations will ultimately decide how far individual states go with this. They always do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think the big corporations will ultimately decide how far individual states go with this. They always do. Idk about that... are all those corps that have relocated to Texas or Florida gonna just leave over this? Maybe a few employees start looking elsewhere. But I doubt it is much. People generally don't move purely for political reasons and I doubt that changes here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Idk about that... are all those corps that have relocated to Texas or Florida gonna just leave over this? Maybe a few employees start looking elsewhere. But I doubt it is much. People generally don't move purely for political reasons and I doubt that changes here. If it happens , it would be economic. If there is a way to monetize this, the corporations will do it. Some of them have already begun to market themselves as being against the decision. While I think that the corporate elite has more power than politicians, they are usually led by old white guys who don't care about abortion. That is a problem, but if they can make money... Edited June 25, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The second part, the non-bolded part (I actually remembered to BOLD something this time...), I 100% agree with. The first part... I'm just saying I think there needs to be less "convincing" and a whole lot more understanding of the ramifications of any decision, any decision, made... I think if someone actually understands the "consequences", there would be more "OK I gotta hold my nose on this but... gotta do it". Out of civic duty. Out of an understanding of the consequences of having the WRONG person in a position of power. Out of allowing the lesser of two evils into office because the lesser evil is, well, less evil. Out of knowing that you might not get exactly what you want but... getting 50% or 10% of what you want is better than getting 100% of what you DON'T want. Etc... I think I repeated myself about 5 times in that last bit, each in a different manner... But, whichever works. Again, people need to realize that not every election is gonna have the perfect candidate in it. Most dont, tbh. And the fact that it doesn't have the perfect candidate doesn't mean that it is worthless to participate in it. That doesn't mean that pressure shouldn't be applied to candidates to do what they can to advance an agenda or to be better, but when the rubber meets the road, in any election, you get to live with one of the two people for 2/4/6 years. And it stands to reason that people should want a say in who that person is. Regardless of how good or bad the options are. Edited June 25, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 What blows my mind to an extent is the following: It's been pretty clear for a couple years this is coming. Exceptionally clear for a couple of months since the draft opinion. What is this decision doing? Kicking it to state governments. Yet how many republicans who will be writing abortion laws the next several years win their elections unopposed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I'm NOT demanding votes. I am not asking for entitlement. Pfife keeps yapping that I'm demanding he vote a specific way. Horseshit. Right above one of those yaps I had answered another of your posts asking "what if someone wanted to vote for a Republican?" and I said go right ahead. That's not entitlement. But here is where I differ. I am stating uncategorically that every vote/ non-vote/ or 3rd party vote has CONSEQUENCES. I don't agree with your statement that "appealing" has to be a part of it. Consequences are the only thing that matters to me (maybe not to anyone else, especially for someone looking to be appealed to...). If this is the kind of country you want to live in, then by all means continue to vote Republican. Or 3rd party. Or don't vote (Republican voters are always more motivated than Dems so a few non-votes for a Republican doesn't block him/ her from gaining office). If you like this country the way it is, by all means, vote Republican. If this is NOT the type of country you want to love in... then there can be no excuses. Not "I'm not motivated", not "doesn't appeal to me", not "not my candidate so I'm staying home", not "not my candidate so I'm voting for the other party", not "my vote doesn't count so I'm voting 3rd party"... There are CONSEQUENCES to all of these decisions. The country that we now have today. Glad you appointed yourself judge over MY reasons for MY vote. Blow it out your ass. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: They didn't want to do much becausde the Democratic center is not progressive and this is why young people don't vote. Obama carried a lot of baggage being the 1st black President. I'm sure he feared, and rightfully so - since history proved it happened anyway, that if he allowed himself to be labeled as too 'radical' it would be an end to the chance of another black man being elected. He picked what he thought was the single most important thing he could do and put all his political capital into it. Yeah - if he had been more experienced he might have been more effective, and you can always look back in hindsight and see other options his admin missed, but I'm not going to slam him for doing the lift that he did, which was one no-one else had achieved in 50 yrs. Edited June 25, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 16 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I don't know. It seems to be getting worse! a lot of momentum in the wrong direction to overcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Obama carried a lot of baggage being the 1st black President. I'm sure he feared, and rightfully so - since history proved it happened anyway, that if he allowed himself to be labeled as too 'radical' it would be an end to the chance of another black man being elected. He picked what he thought was the single most important thing he could do and put all his political capital into it. Yeah - if he had been more experienced he might have been more effective, and you can always look back in hindsight and see other options his admin missed, but I'm not going to slam him for doing the lift that he did, which was one no-one else had achieved in 50 yrs. Maybe a younger Biden should have been President in 2008 and a more experienced Obama in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 It's more than just abortion. My hometown got destroyed by flooding and these dems I'm supposed to vote for ain't doing shit about it but I'm glad I've got people to tell me what's important to me and how I should vote I'm so lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 more of “well now” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Maybe a younger Biden should have been President in 2008 and a more experienced Obama in 2016. QFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Maybe a younger Biden should have been President in 2008 and a more experienced Obama in 2016. A younger Biden did run in 2008 but was canceled because he wasn't black or a woman. An even younger Biden ran in 1988 but was canceled because of a plagiarized speech. The irony here is that Obama was the inspiring choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: A younger Biden did run in 2008 but was canceled because he wasn't black or a woman. An even younger Biden ran in 1988 but was canceled because of a plagiarized speech. The irony here is that Obama was the inspiring choice. Biden should have run in '16, but would have lost because Hillary's supporters would have stayed home..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Idk about that... are all those corps that have relocated to Texas or Florida gonna just leave over this? Maybe a few employees start looking elsewhere. But I doubt it is much. People generally don't move purely for political reasons and I doubt that changes here. It’s true, companies are not going to stampede out of Texas and Florida en masse starting today. But over time, as these states boldly and proudly adopt more fascist laws that are out of step with most of the rest of America—particularly those intended to punish the freedom to just be—some companies who rely on top industry talent to stay competitive will peel off as they lose that talent, or fail to attract sufficient new talent; and companies looking for a move will think twice before moving there. The only way Texas et al will be saved from an economic crippling due to these freedom-sapping laws over the next couple or so decades is either (1) wake up to the negative impact and at least moderate their moves in passing these laws; or (2) the United States becomes a one-party fascist autocracy molded in the image of Texas et al Republicans. I know which one they’re working for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: The second part, the non-bolded part (I actually remembered to BOLD something this time...), I 100% agree with. The first part... I'm just saying I think there needs to be less "convincing" and a whole lot more understanding of the ramifications of any decision, any decision, made... I think if someone actually understands the "consequences", there would be more "OK I gotta hold my nose on this but... gotta do it". Out of civic duty. Out of an understanding of the consequences of having the WRONG person in a position of power. Out of allowing the lesser of two evils into office because the lesser evil is, well, less evil. Out of knowing that you might not get exactly what you want but... getting 50% or 10% of what you want is better than getting 100% of what you DON'T want. Etc... I think I repeated myself about 5 times in that last bit, each in a different manner... But, whichever works. Yup. You need to vote to prevent what you don't want as much as to get what you do want. The repubs have internalized that much better than the dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Again, people need to realize that not every election is gonna have the perfect candidate in it. Most dont, tbh. And the fact that it doesn't have the perfect candidate doesn't mean that it is worthless to participate in it. That doesn't mean that pressure shouldn't be applied to candidates to do what they can to advance an agenda or to be better, but when the rubber meets the road, in any election, you get to live with one of the two people for 2/4/6 years. And it stands to reason that people should want a say in who that person is. Regardless of how good or bad the options are. This is what I agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, pfife said: Glad you appointed yourself judge over MY reasons for MY vote. Blow it out your ass. Again. Quit acting like a fucking 2 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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