SCOTUS and whatnot

[Motor City Sonics]

This is what you get when you sit it out because your candidate is not perfect.     I didn't like John Kerry,  I didn't like Al Gore, but I would have rather have had them then what we got.   I didn't sit it out.  I did what I could and that's all I can do.  

Edited May 3, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[Motown Bombers]

The Republicans held the court hostage for 9 months and these Bernie or bust Bernouts couldn't show up because Hillary wasn't pure enough. 

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Like I said, I hope they're happy with this outcome. 

They will need to be happy now for about 20 years.

[RatkoVarda]

 

[buddha]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

You are pretty consistently more optimistic about this court than I think is merited, but if it's not a flat out full reversal I'll be glad to give you your props.  

and not that it will matter to the price of tea in China but I'll be curious where the Chief ends up.

im consistently more accurate about the court than most here.  😏  but i pay attention to it more than most.

but nobody's perfect, lol.

[buddha]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

What I would say on the politics is that I've come to believe on abortion is that support for it tends to sit on sort of a bell curve: people tend to be somewhere in the middle in terms of legality up to a certain period of time...  people tend not to want it totally banned, but maybe not available up until birth. 16-20 weeks or so would maybe be the median.

This decision is down at the far right wing of the bell curve. And if the numbers from Texas below are accurate, Roe v. Wade repeal would be wildly unpopular nationwide.

But we will see what the court does. What it means for the elections, I don't know.

that's the most popular alternative and the one that is the law in most countries: a ban after 20 weeks or so.

unfortunately both parties seemed to be ruled by their extremes: the republicans who want an outright ban, and the democrats who think any restriction on abortion is the coming of the handmaid's tale.

throw roe's strained reasoning into the mix and you get our current situation.  remove roe and you'll see a hodgepodge of state restrictions from outright bans to allowance of partial birth abortions.  

if you wanted to motivate democratic voters, you just got it.

[Archie]

If Roe v Wade does get overturned it might motivate some dems for a while but as soon as Biden opens his mouth that motivation will go away.

I still think the all or nothing on abortion is wrong. The are certain reasons for abortion that should be allowed like medical issues or rape. Abortion as a form of birth control is what should be fixed.

There's alot of democrats that say eliminating abortion attacks women's rights.  I call BS on that because these are the same people that either pass laws or support men dressed as women to compete in women's athletics.  The democrats should start here if they really are concerned about women's rights.

[RatkoVarda]

it is never this complicated

 

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

it is never this complicated

 

We'll see how much it actually softens the ground, of course... the ramifications if it actually goes through are still gonna be pretty high whenever that ruling comes.

Also, in terms of political organizing around the issue, gives pro-choice groups a head start.

[Motown Bombers]

Rumor has it the five justices voting to overturn Roe will be at the border doing Elmer Fudd cosplay and complaining about open borders and caravans.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

that's the most popular alternative and the one that is the law in most countries: a ban after 20 weeks or so.

unfortunately both parties seemed to be ruled by their extremes: the republicans who want an outright ban, and the democrats who think any restriction on abortion is the coming of the handmaid's tale.

Right.

But the danger that I see for Republicans in this decision is that, with Roe fully in tact, it's easier to campaign against the most extreme voices on the left of this issue. If you remove Roe v Wade, there's gonna be a Western Land Rush on state legislatures to pass wide ranging, extreme bans on abortion.

Put another way, post-repeal, the right wing extremists get the spotlight moreso than in the past. In states like Michigan or Pennsylvania or Wisconsin with important and difficult Governors races in the fall (and R Legislatures), that can make a difference. It was a different time of course, but some of us remember what happened to Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock... there may be a lot of those sentiments floating around state capitols if they go through with this.

How much of a difference it makes, idk... but in terms of base motivation, it'll make at least a little bit I'm sure.

1 hour ago, buddha said:

throw roe's strained reasoning into the mix and you get our current situation.  remove roe and you'll see a hodgepodge of state restrictions from outright bans to allowance of partial birth abortions.  

Long term, given the Washington Post story that came out a few days ago, I'm concerned that we're not done with this at the federal level and that Rs may be looking at nationwide ban.

So much for states rights lol

Edited May 3, 2022 by mtutiger

[oblong]

I frankly don't care about the sanctity of the court or the politics right now.  I care about the women and their families that will be hurt by this.  Young girls, victims of rape, and middle aged mothers with high school kids facing a health crisis with an unplanned and shocking pregnancy at age 45 will end up dying.

All because of 5 justices who think our country should be a theocracy.

 

 

[Motown Bombers]

It's getting harder for me to see daylight between the Christian right and Taliban. 

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

But the danger that I see for Republicans in this decision is that, with Roe fully in tact, it's easier to campaign against the most extreme voices on the left of this issue. If you remove Roe v Wade, there's gonna be a Western Land Rush on state legislatures to pass wide ranging, extreme bans on abortion.

Right, the core of abortion opposition in the US is religious and therefore absolutist. Repeal of RvW by itself and establishment of a 'middle ground' regime will be no satisfaction for them. And here again we see the problem with the non-democratic character of the US National Gov. A middle ground political solution would probably have 2/3 public support nationally, but still can not pass the US Senate.

Edited May 3, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Right, the core of abortion opposition in the US is religious and therefore absolutist. Repeal of RvW by itself and establishment of a 'middle ground' regime will be no satisfaction for them. And here again we see the problem with the non-democratic character of the US National Gov. A middle ground political solution would probably have 2/3 public support nationally, but still can not pass the US Senate.

We got one state with 40 million people and two senators. We got another state with 590,000 and two senators. California is roughly the size of the 23 smallest states combined. If California had 46 senators, along with New York and Illinois getting their share, things would be a lot different. 

[gehringer_2]

we are literally turning into pre-civil war Iraq, a country with a religious minority dominating a larger majority. We saw where that got Iraq in the end.

Edited May 3, 2022 by gehringer_2

[pfife]

57 minutes ago, Archie said:

There's alot of democrats that say eliminating abortion attacks women's rights.  I call BS on that because these are the same people that either pass laws or support men dressed as women to compete in women's athletics.  The democrats should start here if they really are concerned about women's rights.

Yes if you really care about women's rights you should eagerly extinguish the latest winger manufactroversy.

[romad1]

This whole CItizens United-driven rush to turn the country into a snowpiercer model train run by the Mercer family needs to end. 

 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, romad1 said:

This whole CItizens United-driven rush to turn the country into a snowpiercer model train run by the Mercer family needs to end. 

 

and it only gets worse. Because the right will increasingly have to deny the very value of democratic process in order to justify the flawed system and their continued hold on power as a minority. Funny thing, that is exactly what we are seeing isn't it? Voter suppression, and Constitutional "originalism" worship are both foundation pieces.

Edited May 3, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tigerbomb13]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

There's alot of democrats that say eliminating abortion attacks women's rights.  I call BS on that because these are the same people that either pass laws or support men dressed as women to compete in women's athletics.  The democrats should start here if they really are concerned about women's rights.

Quite the strawman you’ve got there 

[buddha]

25 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Right.

But the danger that I see for Republicans in this decision is that, with Roe fully in tact, it's easier to campaign against the most extreme voices on the left of this issue. If you remove Roe v Wade, there's gonna be a Western Land Rush on state legislatures to pass wide ranging, extreme bans on abortion.

Put another way, post-repeal, the right wing extremists get the spotlight moreso than in the past. In states like Michigan or Pennsylvania or Wisconsin with important and difficult Governors races in the fall (and R Legislatures), that can make a difference. It was a different time of course, but some of us remember what happened to Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock... there may be a lot of those sentiments floating around state capitols if they go through with this.

How much of a difference it makes, idk... but in terms of base motivation, it'll make at least a little bit I'm sure.

Long term, given the Washington Post story that came out a few days ago, I'm concerned that we're not done with this at the federal level and that Rs may be looking at nationwide ban.

So much for states rights lol

i cant wait to suddenly see the democrats fall in love with the filibuster again!

suddenly the filibuster will become as central to "preserving democracy" as the ability to pass out water in a voting line.

[romad1]

1 minute ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Quite the strawman you’ve got there 

Wait... there are dudes cutting off their genitals just to compete in the 200m dash?  

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, oblong said:

I frankly don't care about the sanctity of the court or the politics right now.  I care about the women and their families that will be hurt by this.  Young girls, victims of rape, and middle aged mothers with high school kids facing a health crisis with an unplanned and shocking pregnancy at age 45 will end up dying.

All because of 5 justices who think our country should be a theocracy.

 

 

I understand. But the issue is far from settled if/when that day comes. If one cares deeply about this issue, gotta think two or three moves down the line. As I suspect a lot of pro-choice groups are.

[buddha]

17 minutes ago, oblong said:

I frankly don't care about the sanctity of the court or the politics right now.  I care about the women and their families that will be hurt by this.  Young girls, victims of rape, and middle aged mothers with high school kids facing a health crisis with an unplanned and shocking pregnancy at age 45 will end up dying.

All because of 5 justices who think our country should be a theocracy.

 

 

what about the babies?  ah who cares, kill em.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, buddha said:

i cant wait to suddenly see the democrats fall in love with the filibuster again!

suddenly the filibuster will become as central to "preserving democracy" as the ability to pass out water in a voting line.

And that's when McConnell will get rid of it.

See, I can both sides too.