SCOTUS and whatnot

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

well, you can see how this thread is going for me.  lol.  

I mean, the accusation came from the hard right of the issue.

[buddha]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Yeah, you're the victim in all of this. 

i was making a joke.  

its an internet message board, the only victims here are logic and reason.

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I mean, the accusation came from the hard right of the issue.

hard right, hard left, both are pretty insufferable on the ol' internets.

[Motown Bombers]

The hard left wants to be like Norway. The hard right wants to be like the Taliban. Both are the same I guess. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

well, you can see how this thread is going for me.  lol.  

the position you profess is not the position of the core abortion opposition in the US, which is unquestionably absolutist. My political hope would be that at least one effect of the repeal of RvW would be to increase your (as a class type) separation politically from that core of absolutist opposition and so rebalance US politics away from the religious right somewhat.  But I'm not all that optimistic because I'm not sure the loss of majority control in the national gov hasn't reached an unrecoverable tipping point.

[sabretooth]

buddha makes a lot of sense here, even if I dont completely agree.

You might know where I stand on this.  Glad to see Roe go.

Procedurally, if Roe is gone and replaced by laws allowing abortion, thats democracy.

I agree with protecting life as early as practicable for one simple common sense reason that has nothing to do with religion: I identify with the unborn because that was me one day long ago, and that was every one of you too.

All the rest of the disscussion is negotiation...not judging honest discussion one way or another.

Carry on.  I will not be responding but I will be reading.

Edited May 3, 2022 by sabretooth

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the position you profess is not the position of the core abortion opposition in the US, which is unquestionably absolutist. My political hope would be that at least one effect of the repeal of RvW would be to increase your (as a class type) separation politically from that core of absolutist opposition and so rebalance US politics away from the religious right somewhat.  But I'm not all that optimistic because I'm not sure the loss of majority control in the national gov hasn't reached an unrecoverable tipping point.

hoping for sanity in today's politics is probably not good for your health.

[Tigeraholic1]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

they're "embryos" and "fetuses" because such scientific language makes people feel better about what is actually occuring.  

its a medical procedure, its not actually killing a living thing.

The Nazi regime did a great job of scientifically dehumanizing a group of people so there is that.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

hoping for sanity in today's politics is probably not good for your health.

I'm old. Most things I enjoy are bad for my health!

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the position you profess is not the position of the core abortion opposition in the US, which is unquestionably absolutist. 

Exactly.

It's kinda weird to see Buddha adopt the language of absolutists to go after Rob when the absolutists on the issue have the same level of disdain for those squishes who are in the middle on the issue.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

The Nazi regime did a great job of scientifically dehumanizing a group of people so there is that.

Are you accusing pro choicers of being Nazis?

[Motown Bombers]

If embryos and fetuses' are babies, why can't a woman claim them as dependents on their tax returns? 

[Motown Bombers]

A woman should be able to take out a life insurance policy on her fetus just like she could a baby. That way if she miscarries, she can collect the insurance funds to pay for the hospital bill. 

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Are you accusing pro choicers of being Nazis?

I guess this is my problem with Buddha's framing.... it just seems like on this issue, there's no penalty at all to just throwing "Hitler" and "Nazi" around if it comes from the right of the issue. Like it's just expected. Decorum and all that, on the other hand, gets enforced on the left extreme of the issue.

It's largely why I don't talk about this issue any more. Most people are in the middle, yet the extremes dominate it. Assuming Roe goes, we'll now get to see one end of the spectrum dominate and see how the people respond.

Edited May 3, 2022 by mtutiger

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Exactly.

It's kinda weird to see Buddha adopt the language of absolutists to go after Rob when the absolutists on the issue have the same level of disdain for those squishes who are in the middle on the issue.

how about oblong's language and characterization of all those who dont believe in abortion?  is that cool?  i responded in kind.

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I guess this is my problem with Buddha's framing.... it just seems like on this issue, there's no penalty at all to just throwing "Hitler" and "Nazi" around if it comes from the right of the issue. Like it's just expected. Decorum and all that, on the other hand, gets enforced on the left extreme of the issue.

It's largely why I don't talk about this issue any more. Most people are in the middle, yet the extremes dominate it. Assuming Roe goes, we'll now get to see one end of the spectrum dominate and see how the people respond.

like throwing around the taliban and racists, and rape excusers?  or putin apologists?

i didnt call anyone nazis or hitler.

Edited May 3, 2022 by buddha

[mtutiger]

Just now, buddha said:

like throwing around the taliban and racists, and rape excusers?  

i didnt call anyone nazis or hitler.

Sure sounded like Tigeraholic did.

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

buddha makes a lot of sense here, even if I dont completely agree.

You might know where I stand on this.  Glad to see Roe go.

Procedurally, if Roe is gone and replaced by laws allowing abortion, thats democracy.

I agree with protecting life as early as practicable for one simple common sense reason that has nothing to do with religion: I identify with the unborn because that was me one day long ago, and that was every one of you too.

All the rest of the disscussion is negotiation...not judging honest discussion one way or another.

Carry on.  I will not be responding but I will be reading.

the thing is Saber, is that you are doing a lot of metaphysical hand waving here. No-one other than someone claiming religious revelation really knows what human consciousness really even is, where it comes from or where it goes. If I put a 3 week old dog embryo and 3 week old human embryo on slides in front of you, there is no way you could even tell them apart without sophisticated technology. Heck, we know know that every cell in your body actually contains a potentiality to generate a human life, how many have you murdered popping a zit? The deeper you delve into biology the more all of our neat sociological constructs fade into grey.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

like throwing around the taliban and racists, and rape excusers?  or putin apologists?

Agreed.

Of course, two wrongs do not make a right either.

[pfife]

Is it the case that someone's rights should be determined by what America has decided is "democracy"?

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Sure sounded like Tigeraholic did.

i didnt.

look, i expect it.  you take a position that is not in the mainstream left and you get disagreed with.  comes with the territory.

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

We get the government we deserve.  

This kind of thing is said here all the time and I fucking hate this sentiment. We do not deserve this shit just because a quarter millennium ago slaveholders struck a compromise with New Englanders to allow them to maintain outsized political power in exchange for creating some purported union.  

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Procedurally, if Roe is gone and replaced by laws allowing abortion, thats democracy.

I would be curious to know how sabertooth would feel if another case ended up before the Supreme Court that would forbid abortion nationwide.

[mtutiger]

Just now, buddha said:

i didnt.

look, i expect it.  you take a position that is not in the mainstream left and you get disagreed with.  comes with the territory.

Or the mainstream right.

[Motown Bombers]

Just thing of how many babies have been killed by teenage boys by a Kleenex or old sock.